National Health Service (Mandate Requirements) Regulations 2017

Debate between Lord Clark of Windermere and Baroness Masham of Ilton

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right to sing the praises of the National Health Service, and she is quite right to point out that we are undertaking more operations than we have in the past. She is also right to say that, as we grow older, more of us will need the health service. That is a fact that we have to face and accept and about which we have to persuade people—who do not need much persuading—that something has to be done. My noble friend Lord Reid and I served in the Blair Cabinet and we spent hours trying to bring about the political will to make sure that waiting times, which caused so much grief and pain in the 1990s, were cut. So we are talking about political will.

There is an interesting public opinion poll produced by YouGov and published today on behalf of the Royal College of Nursing. It shows that 72% of the general public believe that the NHS lacks sufficient staff to enable them to do their job properly. When we talk about altering waiting times, it is worth remembering that healthcare is a labour-intensive industry in all its aspects. We all know that, and we all know that the NHS achieves what it does only through the dedication and commitment of the staff and the hours that they work, from the consultants through to the nurses, the healthcare assistants, the porters and everyone. We have to try to assist them because they are getting towards breaking point. The Royal College of Nursing has balloted its members and is talking about taking industrial action. Therefore, we look to the Government to have the political will to act.

I accept that there is no magic wand. This Government bear a lot of responsibility because they were the key partner in the coalition that cut the number of nurses in training after 2010. The onus is now on them, and they are beginning to increase the numbers, but they must do more. However, it obviously takes a long time to train consultants, doctors and GPs. There are shortages everywhere, including a shortage of 40,000 nurses. I do not know the figure, but there is a shortage of GPs running into the tens of thousands. There is a shortage of hospital consultants and shortages everywhere.

So what do we do? It is not easy, because more nurses are leaving than entering the profession. We cannot do anything about the training, as that will take a number of years, but we can do something about retaining people in post, by persuading GPs to carry on a bit longer and persuading nurses to stay in post as it is worth while doing what they do. That is what we should be doing. It would be a great help if the 1% cap on wages could be lifted, because that has meant that the average nurse is probably 12% worse off than they were a few years ago. That would be one way of making it easier to retain people.

Then there is the other point that was made by my noble friend who introduced the debate, whom I thank, about the number of nurses and doctors who have worked in the health service who are from the European Union. Can we offer them something to persuade them that we want them to stay in our country? For example, as the Minister knows, anyone from the European Union who has spent five years working in this country, which includes people in the health service, can apply for the right of permanent residency. But we cannot get the Government to say what that means. Does permanent residency mean that they can stay here, or will they be sent back to Europe? That increases the uncertainty and anxiety. I urge the Minister to go back to his colleagues and say, “All right, if we can’t or won’t make a commitment to the European Union citizens to stay in the health service, let us say that at least those who have gained permanent residency can stay”. That would help the issue.

I return to my basic point. This now requires political will. I do not doubt the Minister’s commitment. I know where the Minister stands and how much he believes in the health service. He has made that quite plain in a number of debates that we have taken part in. But we need political will and we are looking to the Minister to try to argue his corner and punch above his weight and give every support that he can to try to make health staff in the health service more satisfied so that they stay in their jobs and help us to reduce waiting times.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I want to ask the Minister about the better care fund, which is for health and social care working together, which also comes under the mandate. The better care fund document was not available for scrutiny purposes, as it was not published until 15 days after the instrument was laid before the House. All relevant documentation should be available. Without that, effective scrutiny is not possible. What is the present situation, as this deals with some very vulnerable people?