Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Clark of Windermere and Baroness Byford

Tuesday 25th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Byford (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for introducing the statutory instrument, which follows on from the many discussions we have had over recent years about the whole question of the pet trade. I am grateful to him for explaining the campaign for Lucy’s law. We were all well aware of it, and the response was overwhelming.

I think that he said that there were 6,500 responses, the majority very supportive of the measure. Can he share with us the concerns expressed by others who were not so fully supportive?

The use, abuse, breeding and smuggling of puppies and kittens over the years has been a disgrace. I am really proud that the Government have decided to tackle it in a complete way, while giving the various people involved in the trade until April 2020 to make alternative arrangements.

I have two other questions, although I support the instrument. On the whole question of pet shops, licensing and local government’s commitment to cover the costs, does local government already receive subsidy or some form of help for the inspection regime in place now? Will the charges that may be made by local authorities in future cover all inquiries or just specific issues that they are asked to consider?

My other question is on the whole issue of rescue and rehoming. Many people are tempted, because they want to help, to look to rescue and rehoming rather than buying a pet from a pet shop or a legitimate breeder. I was not sure from our brief where rescue and rehoming businesses—or charities—sat under the regulations.

Lastly, I turn again—we have talked about it before in Committee—to the individual who breeds but is not registered as someone who sells puppies or kittens. Previously, we have considered a breeder producing perhaps two sets of puppies before they would fall under the law. I was not at all sure about kittens. A little clarification on that would be very helpful.

Again, I thoroughly welcome the instrument and wish it good speed through the House.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, for her contribution. I sympathise with her on two points; I especially want to come back to her point about rehoming pets. I intend to speak only about puppies because I know about dogs; I have always had them. If I may say so, I have never bought them from a pet shop; I have always got them either through rehoming or direct from local farms.

I take the view that pets are not a fashion statement. Pets, especially dogs, are there for what they give to humans. They give us so much in terms of loyalty, comfort and affection. I must say, I welcome both the Government’s strategy on animal welfare and the regulations. I agree entirely with the BVA that they must be seen not as an isolated example but as part of a developing holistic approach. I was encouraged by the Minister’s point that this is the next step in the process. We will not be satisfied with that; we look forward to the step after it. We very much welcome the regulations and I take the Minister’s statement in the spirit in which it was made.

Of course, we live in a changing world. There are roughly 9 million dogs in this country—an increase of 400,000 since last year alone. I am afraid that the increase is partly due to fashion. We cannot affect it; people can do what they want and buy what they want with their money. However, importantly—the Government are aware of this—much more public communication is needed to get across to people what keeping a dog means and from where they can be bought. Again, I agree with the Government and am encouraged by the Minister talking about a comprehensive communication strategy. That is precisely what is needed because when most people, or at least a lot of them, acquire a dog, they are doing so for the first time and do not know what they are getting or what they want. On many occasions, they waste a lot of money through getting the wrong breed of dog. Of course, the regulations are here because unscrupulous people take advantage of that fact. It is very important that we try, gently, to educate the general public.

Coming back to rescuing and rehoming, the Government were encouraging, although they did not say a great deal about it. I have had rescue and rehomed dogs, and I have always been impressed by them. Now, the overwhelming majority of rescue establishments, whether they deal with specialised breeds such as collies or Labradors or are general establishments, maintain very high standards. That is what the regulations are partly about: high health standards. Most establishments have the animals microchipped and all of them allow the public to see the conditions in which the animals are kept. That is very important. It is not always available at a pet shop; you cannot see the conditions in which the dogs are kept 24 hours a day—that is probably a slight exaggeration, but basically all the time.

The noble Baroness raised a point about these rescue establishments; most of them are charities. Can the Minister clarify the position? As I understand it, these charities are exempt under the parent Act, if I can call it that. If that is the case, it is important that we monitor the charities as well—I am sure they would support that—because we must be sure that no unscrupulous dealers see this as a loophole in the system.

The online sale of animals is a bigger challenge than I can comprehend, and with social media it is a real challenge—not only for the Government handling it at the centre but for the local authorities, which in a sense ensure that the regulations are enforced.

In conclusion, I really support these regulations and the Government’s intent. I am encouraged by, and very much welcome, the Minister’s approach, but it will need careful monitoring.