Tuition Fees

Debate between Lord Bruce of Bennachie and Joan Ruddock

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Malcolm Bruce]

What is clear is that the Government have a policy, whereas the Labour party absolutely does not. I have the utmost respect for the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock), who spoke with genuine commitment and sincerity, and I take the point that she is making. But what does she say to people who tell her that under this system they will not be able to go to university, that they could not have gone to university or that their children will not be able to go? Does she say, “You are absolutely right. You should despair. Just despair”? Does she not say that they should have a proper look at what is actually being proposed? I accept entirely the cultural fear that people have of debt, but there are no fees to be paid up front, increased maintenance support—grants and loans—is available and people pay the money back only as and when they earn salaries that are rising. People from poorer backgrounds should seriously reflect that that gives them more opportunity to go to university than ever was the case before.

[Joan Ruddock]

Frankly, the right hon. Gentleman insults the intelligence of my constituents, who understand very well that there are to be no up-front fees to pay, as indeed there are not at the moment. It is the overall burden of debt for a lifetime that they are afraid of, and rightly so.

[Malcolm Bruce]

What I would stress to the right hon. Lady and to the students if they will engage and listen—the ones that I have spoken to have done so and have accepted this—is that this is a much more progressive arrangement than exists at the moment and than the Labour Government set up. The repayments are generally lower—for 20 to 25% of people they are significantly lower—but for the higher earners they are higher. Consequently, this is a much more progressive system. The truth is that if a parent or young person is considering going to college or university, they face no up-front fees. If they come from a poorer background, they can obtain a higher maintenance grant than is currently available and larger loans than are currently available, on a fairer rate of exchange, and repayments start only when they are earning—