Local Government

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Viscount Hailsham

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as always, the noble Baroness makes a powerful point, but it is not a point on the Question. The Question is about the fair funding formula, which is about relativity, not increased spending. That is the point I was keen to make. There are issues about increased spending, but not from the fair funding formula; they are for the spending review. I also pointed out that in the Budget there were increases in spending for local authorities on adult and children’s social care. That is a fact and there is no denying it.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I make the case on behalf of sparsely populated rural counties, such as Lincolnshire. The truth is that rural counties have never been fully funded because the sparsity factor has not fully been taken into account.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a powerful point for an area that he knows well. Sparsity and population density are very much centre stage in the fair funding review and will be taken full account of.

Grenfell Tower: Rehousing Update

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Viscount Hailsham

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that perceptive question. Each case is different and each is being looked at individually. I think they will be dealt with mutatis mutandis. Obviously, there are differences because they own the property rather than being social tenants. But in essence it will be dealt with in parallel in exactly the same way.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the judge who has been appointed to head the inquiry, Sir Martin Moore-Bick, is extremely well qualified to head that inquiry and that criticisms of him are wholly misconceived? Does my noble friend agree that it is to be hoped that everybody affected by this tragedy will work with the inquiry to determine the true causes?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I agree entirely with my noble friend. He is absolutely right. Sir Martin was chosen because he is the appropriate person to take this forward. He has already visited and has been consulting tenant organisations about the terms of reference and the scope of the inquiry. Details about the public inquiry are on the web at grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk. It is there for people to look at and contribute to the scope of the inquiry, I think until a week on Friday: 14 July. If people want to take that up and have a look at it, I am sure that that would be beneficial.

Update on the Grenfell Tower Fire and Fire Safety

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Viscount Hailsham

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I understand it, the inquiry will be within the rigour of that Act. I had a briefing today that indicated that people could be obliged to attend by subpoena, for example, which indicates that that is the case. Another point I am getting officials to check is that we have somehow to ensure that people giving evidence to this public inquiry—we want it to happen in a very timely way—are protected in that, if they face criminal charges, there has to be some sort of mechanism for making sure they are aware that anything they say on that occasion could be used in criminal proceedings. I will contact the noble Lord, via the letter I am sending round, if I am wrong on that, but as I understand it the Inquiries Act will apply.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that public figures should be very slow to make criticisms of individuals or wild allegations of criminal responsibility until such time as the public inquiry informs us where responsibility truly lies?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks with great authority, as a distinguished lawyer. Of course, that is the case. We have a proper procedure and process to follow in our parliamentary and democratic system, based on the rule of law and the English legal system. That is the reason for the inquiry. That is the reason for legal proceedings, and we must make sure that they happen in a timely way so that we can draw the necessary conclusions, and draw them quickly.