Energy Efficiency (Private Rented Property) (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2016

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Lord Redesdale

Thursday 5th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches also support the regulation. I declare an interest as CEO of the Energy Managers Association and as a landlord. I find it incredible that the landlords are arguing that they cannot afford to upgrade their properties. I know from personal experience that that can be very expensive but they are expecting their tenants, who often are in fuel poverty, to pick up the tab, and they are the least able to pay. Moving forward to a new rating—as quickly as possible—is a very important step. I take on board that this is going to be a complicated register, and it has to work to ensure compliance with it.

However, there is one issue on which I wish to question the Minister, which was brought to my attention by the Country Land and Business Association. If you own a listed property, it is difficult to change it to meet some of the registrations under the EPC rating, especially given the criteria from English Heritage—as was—on double glazing, which should be revised. Not having double glazing in listed properties is ridiculous, given that the standard has improved so significantly. At present, if you want an exemption you have to go through the planning consent process and roll that over for five years, which seems a very clunky way of dealing with this problem.

During the consultation, could a more satisfactory system be looked at, especially for listed properties, to ensure that landlords do not face major costs arising from bureaucracy? I believe that solutions can be found. If owners of listed properties wish to rent them out, they should make them as energy efficient as possible. That said, I have a 16th-century bastle house that is difficult to get even close to an E, even though I have carried out almost every measure I can think of.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in this debate. I will endeavour to answer the points that were raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale.

I reassure the noble Baroness that, as I said, the ultimate deadlines remain the same. There is no question of a lack of ambition; the ambition has not changed. We are determined to tackle the scourge of fuel poverty and to aim for energy efficiency, and this will also contribute towards energy security. The problem, as I exemplified when I set out the case, is that first we need extra time to properly design the register. This is within the ultimate deadline set by the Act. It is important that we get this right. The noble Baroness indicated general approval, in fairness, so I am sure she would approve of that. There is no lack of ambition; we just want to ensure that we get it right.

The second point is specifically about the ending of the Green Deal, which she referred to. The Green Deal came in during the last Government, but early on we said that it was not doing its work, so we are moving away from it. However, we are still determined to ensure that we tackle the minimum standards in the private rented sector, so that we can deliver on improvements up to energy performance certificate E. As I said, the deadlines remain the same.

The noble Baroness asked about HMOs. They are covered by this regulation, and I hope she will welcome that news. In response to what was, if I may say so, a rather dismal litany—our proposals are very sensible—I repeat that there is no delay in implementation. There is a delay in the register coming online but no delay in the deadlines for producing measures that landlords have to conform to. It is right that we take some time to consult to make sure that we have got the provision right and it is workable. We will do that, and that will happen in due order this year. The noble Baroness has my assurance on that, and no doubt she and others will want to contribute to that process.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, for his general welcome and note what he said about the Country Land and Business Association. There are exemptions, which I referred to, with regard to listed buildings and the difficulty of getting planning permission. They are already in the regulations and there is no proposal to change those. If the noble Lord wants to write to the department about specific situations, of course we will look at them.