Meat: Ritual Slaughter and Religious Freedom

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Ludford

Thursday 28th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ludford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of developments including the judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union of 26 February Œuvre d’assistance aux bêtes d’abattoirs v Ministre de l’Agriculture et de l’Alimentation (C–497/17) that meat prepared according to the rules of religious slaughter cannot be classed as organic, what plans they have to encourage a wider debate about the space for practice in accordance with religious rights that respects human rights and equalities laws.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government note the judgment that EU law does not authorise the placing of the EU organic production logo on products derived from animals that have been slaughtered in accordance with religious rites without first being stunned. The ruling will apply in the UK but, in any event, since January all UK organic control bodies ceased to certify meat from non-stunned animals as organic.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. This ECJ judgment effectively means that those in the Jewish and Muslim communities who wish to purchase kosher or halal meat legally slaughtered without pre-stunning will be unable to buy products with the organic label. I am secular, but I think it is important that religious communities have the right to practise their religion, not just the right to religious belief, as long as human rights and equalities laws are respected. We are seeing not only attacks on places of worship but on matters of dress, male circumcision and time off for religious observance as well as animal slaughter. Room for religious practice is being squeezed. How will the Government promote an honest, open debate in our society about where this is going and where a reasonable settlement lies?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The first point I make to the noble Baroness, which I made in my Answer, is that prior to the judgment it was already not possible to buy organic halal or kosher meat from un-stunned animals. That was the practice from January. On her general point about religious freedoms, in this country we have some of the best protections in the world with the Equality Act and the convention on human rights. It is something of which we can be justly proud.

High Street Retailers

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Ludford

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right about the changing nature of the high street. There is no way, as somebody said to me, that we can stop evolution. These are changes that we have to embrace, but there are many things we can do such as, as the noble Lord hinted, ensuring there is a level playing field. VAT rates are not central to this; the important issue is international action in relation to online activities. The Treasury is seeking here to lead the charge with our partners, both in the EU and more widely.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that staying part of the EU gives us a much better chance of grappling with the problems of taxing big multinational companies, because the EU has the collective clout to do that, which we cannot necessarily do on our own?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I do not think that is the case. We need to work with our EU partners, but we are not limited to EU partners, as I have indicated. This is a global issue, which is much wider than simply the EU.