Homes for Social Rent

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 2nd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the £2 billion put into the not very affordable housing programme falls woefully short of the £14.6 billion per year of capital grant recommended last week by the National Housing Federation and others? Without it, we will continue to see the nearly 40-year legacy of chronic failure to build social, not affordable, housing—a policy that has now driven our most vulnerable into the arms of the most unscrupulous parts of the private sector.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I accept that we need to deliver more social housing. That has been the case for some time, including through the coalition years. However, I point out to the noble Baroness that last year we had the best year of housing delivery overall for 31 years in all but one year, and that is good news for all of us.

Homelessness

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 21st May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the figure that I have to hand for the number of people who are homeless—as opposed to rough sleeping—is 58,660. That is the first count under the particular way we calculate figures. New figures are out this Friday, which no doubt the noble Lord will want to look at. Spending on homelessness is a key feature of tackling it, but it is not the only thing, as I think that he would acknowledge. The issue is much more complex than that. As I indicated, we are spending £1.2 billion on this. We are also spending money specifically on rough sleeping, as there is a particular issue there. However, many other things are involved, such as family breakdown, addiction issues, coming out of prison or coming out of the armed services; it is a much more complex picture than he perhaps indicated.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, given that the Minister sees the private rented sector as part of the solution, does he accept that the shortfall between the local housing allowance and rent has more than doubled since the benefit freeze was introduced in 2016? Does he also accept that, as a result, and because they are in debt by more than £100 a month, people are now having to choose between food and rent? Surely simply not extending the benefit freeze is not enough, and it should be ended as soon as possible.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right about the interface between benefits and housing provision; there is obviously a link between the two. We spend around £23 billion a year to help with housing costs, which is a significant amount. Perhaps I can just mention one project. She highlights the importance of private sector accommodation, which I absolutely acknowledge. As of recently, we are spending £37.8 million of government funds on a system for the 13 London boroughs that have signed up to a collaboration project called Capital Letters. The scheme gets people into private accommodation, which helps significantly.

Housing: No-fault Evictions

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Wednesday 15th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I had not anticipated a dimension for short-term tenancies—unwisely, perhaps—but the whole range of activity will be considered in the consultation to make sure that it is fair to everybody.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that since Scotland scrapped no-fault evictions over a year ago, ONS data suggests that rental inflation has remained lower, the private rented sector has remained stable, and the change has not had an adverse impact on homeless people? There was a time when a Conservative Government thought it was perfectly normal to implement a change in Scotland, see how it went and then do it in England. Why cannot we do that now for the tenants who so desperately need this?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thought the noble Baroness would be very grateful that, once the coalition Government had ended, we were able to do these things, looking at what was happening in Scotland and implementing it as effectively as we have. In all seriousness, it is often very helpful—as I and many know—to look at devolved experience and learn lessons from it. We have indeed looked at what is happening in Scotland. While we are not replicating it, there are certainly lessons to be learned.

Property Guardians

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 26th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that property guardians are legally protected.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, property guardians have some legal protections and we are working to ensure that local authorities enforce their rights. However, depending on the arrangements in place, these protections are often fewer than those of tenants. Therefore, we are improving our guidance for property guardians so that they fully understand their rights and the difference between a licence and a tenancy. We are planning a programme of research better to understand the sector and to inform further work.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

I thank the Minister for a meeting with him about this last week. Will he use this opportunity to reassure the growing number of property guardians that the full force of the current law will be applied and new regulations considered? Will he also make clear that the clauses that these people sign, which include no talking to the media or local authorities, mean nothing if they live with mould, rats, electrical hazards, fire doors screwed shut and more? They can and should report it, even when, as is often the case, the property is owned by a local authority.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Baroness for her interest in this. As far as we can tell, there are 5,000 to 7,000 property guardians—the figure is in that area. It is the case that some protections apply. Under the housing health and safety rating system, certain key rights apply, as do rights relating to electrical safety, gas safety and so on. I agree with the noble Baroness that those rights cannot be overridden by non-disclosure agreements. As I said, we are keen to ensure that existing rights are enforced and are planning work to look at the current position and inform possible further action.

Short-term Lettings

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord on that. It is nevertheless important, as he acknowledged, that they satisfy certain conditions. Those that join the Short Term Accommodation Association sign up to a code of conduct. That has been circulated to all houses in Westminster, with which it has a particularly close association. It is the aim of the Short Term Accommodation Association to roll that out nationally.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

Did the Minister see BBC London’s documentary last night, in which undercover work revealed that three private sector companies were helping private landlords find their way round the 90-day limit in London? Does he agree with Generation Rent that the data should now definitely be released to local authorities, because otherwise it is almost impossible for local authorities to enforce?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I did not have the privilege of seeing that programme last night, as I had duties in the House, but I have had reports of it. Those businesses to which the noble Baroness was referring are not members of the Short Term Accommodation Association, although we would certainly encourage them to join it; the association is seeking to ensure that they do.

Housing: Private Rented Sector

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 19th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the number of older people living in the private rented sector.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s primary assessment of the private rented sector is through the annual English Housing Survey. This allows us to make a robust statistical estimate of the age of households in the private rented sector. Taking older people to mean those aged 65 or above, the latest survey estimates that there are 380,000 households where the household reference person is 65 years or older.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, higher costs for older private tenants—40% of income compared to just 14% for owner-occupiers—insecurity, with evictions now the main reason for older renters leaving, and projections that by 2040 one-third of people over 60 will be privately renting are a toxic combination. Does the Minister agree that ending the current Section 21 and having a permanent right to stay, as in Scotland, should be an urgent priority before this becomes a crisis?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it is important to keep this in perspective. That 380,000 represents 6% of the private rented sector. That figure has undeniably gone up, although it has gone down from last year, so I hasten to add that the pattern is not uniform. Many people choose to rent; it is not wise to assume that all these people renting do not want to do so. There are challenges, some of which are met by the Prevention of Eviction Act, as the noble Baroness will know, and others by the Fitness for Habitation Act which we recently passed. So I do not share her analysis.

Tenant Fees Bill

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 15th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly to Amendments 1 and 2 in my name. They are minor and technical, and consequential to an amendment we agreed on Report that would require landlords and agents to be up front about why they are retaining a holding deposit. Amendments 1 and 2 to Clause 11(3)(c) specify the day on which interest is to be payable where reasons for retaining the holding deposit have not been provided within the required period, and the holding deposit needs to be repaid. This date is the day after the end of the relevant period. I beg to move.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, on these Benches we accept this amendment. I take this opportunity to thank the Minister and his team for all their hard work. The last time I thanked them, they were a little busy trying to sort out a little local difficulty regarding definitions of damages. I am pleased to learn from Citizens Advice that it is now reassured that sufficient clarity will be given in guidance. If there is a latest draft of the guidance, having suggested some of the amendments, I would be happy to take a look at it. I am sure that my noble friend will do the fulsome thanks in the next bit but I just wanted to thank the ministerial team and the Minister very much for progressing the Bill. I look forward to its further rapid progress and would like to hear from the Minister when he thinks it will be enacted.

Housebuilding: Target

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there is a direct connection between the lack of affordable housing or social housing and homelessness, as described by Crisis recently? Twelve months ago, in Oral Questions on 19 December, the Minister described the resource that was being allocated, but we have now seen 12 months of an increase in homelessness, in contrast with Scotland, for example. What does the Minister hope to tell us in 12 months’ time and why is it going wrong at the moment?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, before referencing the noble Baroness’s question, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best, for the work that he did on the Bill, which I omitted to do yesterday because I was out of time. I thank him and, indeed, the honourable Member for Westminster North for their considerable work on the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Bill. In answer to the noble Baroness, what I hope to be able to say in a year’s time is that we are making progress, that the 222,000 that we have just seen was not a blip and that we are continuing to make progress against considerable challenges. We look to see what is happening elsewhere, as the noble Baroness knows, particularly in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, but also on the continent of Europe.

Homelessness

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that contribution and, as she has done, I offer sincere condolences on behalf of the Government and the House to the family of Gyula Remes and his friends—I think he had many in this country as well as in his native Hungary. In answer to the noble Baroness, I do speak to homeless people, and not just in Westminster. She is right that it is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy everywhere—not just here but up and down the country—that this is happening.

However, we have to acknowledge that this is perhaps much more complex than the noble Baroness suggested. For example, from the figures that she has no doubt seen today—the first set of such figures; we never previously had ONS figures on this issue and we should welcome that we now have this analysis—we know they indicate that over a third of the deaths have drugs as an element. That is not to minimise the issue but to show that there are many aspects we need to grapple with. It is not just a question of providing funding without knowing where it is going. Many of the deaths are also related to suicide or alcohol; I think more than half involve those three elements. So while, yes, it is about ensuring that we get the figures down, it is, as I say, much more complex than she suggests.

I also pay tribute, particularly at this time of year, to the many third sector bodies and charities which help. St Mungo’s springs to mind, but many others are helping and we should knowledge the great role they play, as well as local authorities. I will highlight one thing in the Statement. In the other place the Secretary of State highlighted the £5 million fund for cold weather, which was announced in October. A lot of that funding is still not committed and local authorities can bid in for it. The Secretary of State will issue that message to them again today, but I encourage them to bid because there is money available, as well as the money we have announced in relation to the early adopters of the rough sleeping initiative.

Perhaps I could accentuate one other thing in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and for the benefit of the House. These figures do not relate just to rough sleeping; they are homelessness figures. It is where homelessness is featured on the death certificate, and some of those deaths will be people who have not been sleeping rough but have been in emergency accommodation, for example. So, again, it is perhaps a bit more complex than a first sight indicates.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister join me in encouraging everyone to download and support the excellent app StreetLink on their phone? The app is backed by St Mungo’s and Homeless Link, and it enables people to report to an outreach team immediately if they see someone sleeping rough. I really recommend it to all colleagues and anyone else listening as it is excellent—but please donate when you use it.

The Minister talks of £5 million. Can he tell us how it is possible for Cabinet members to sign off on an additional £2 billion for a no-deal Brexit when it is entirely in their power to rule that out? Would that money not be better spent on this urgent problem to ensure that there are no more deaths on our streets of people sleeping rough? Where the money has been spent by local authorities, the numbers are coming down—but overall in England, the numbers are still going up and it is a disgrace.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Baroness for the reference to downloading the StreetLink app backed by Homeless Link. That is very valuable advice and I encourage people to do that. On her second point, as I indicated, this is not just about money. Of course the money is important, and we have committed money to it. We announced money just this week in relation to 11 more hubs and we have the rough sleeping initiative areas that were announced previously: much money is committed there. We have to make sure the money is properly spent, so, yes, it is about the money, but it is not just about that, and nor is this problem unique to England. Sadly it is, broadly speaking, a pan-European problem. There have been some successes in Finland and we had a representative of Finland on the rough sleeping advisory board. Our noble Lord, Lord Bird, is on it, as are the mayor of Manchester, Andy Burnham, Andy Street and others. It meets regularly and it is taking action and taking the initiative. Once again, I encourage local authorities to look at whether they can bid in for some of the money relating to cold weather. The point is that it is not just about money, important though that is.

Tenant Fees Bill

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 11th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

Perhaps I may ask for clarification: are we now talking about five weeks, or about default?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it might be helpful to the House if I deal with the rental issue first. If anyone wants to speak on that, I suggest they do so now. I apologise that we glossed over it earlier.

If there are no other points on the rental, I shall deal with the issues raised by my noble friends Lady Gardner of Parkes and Lord Flight, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton.

On the point that we have moved significantly from six weeks to five weeks, yes, it is a movement, but it is scarcely, as the noble Lord suggests, a fundamental shift. It is not as if we are moving from 10 weeks to one week. Perhaps I may provide some reassurance. All the evidence is that most people currently take deposits of between four or five weeks. It is not therefore massively inconsistent with current practice.

At the top end of the market we are retaining the six-week limit for the most expensive properties where the fittings and fixtures may be more costly. It will remain at six weeks where the annual rental is more than £50,000. I hope that provides some reassurance to those noble Lords who have raised the concern.

These are not issues of principle so much as matters of judgment. It is the judgment of Solomon and there will always be some people who disagree with where we are. However, as I say, we have looked at current practice, listened to what outside organisations have said and on that basis we have fixed it at five weeks for most people, but at the top end of the market we have retained the six weeks.

Rogue Landlords

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 13th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I do not disagree with my noble friend’s desire, but he will be aware that, just next week, the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Bill, which will improve enforcement in relation to rogue landlords, will start going through this House. The Bill has already gone through the Commons with cross-party support, and I am sure that the same will happen here. That is an important part of this. I repeat that it is very early days; we are six months in from the first occasion when there could be a conviction under the new offences, with entry in the register. In the fullness of time, I trust—and I am sure that people will be watching like hawks—that this will be put right.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that we need an open register urgently and cannot afford to wait for it, given that nearly a quarter of households in the UK now rent privately? Can the Minister explain the difference between an open register of that nature for landlords and, let us say, food hygiene ratings? Surely it is just as important to have a rating for where you live as it is for where you eat.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, to reiterate the point I made to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, we are committed to ensuring that the register is open: it is now only a matter of finding parliamentary time in order to put that right. The noble Baroness is right about the importance of that and we are committed to doing it: just as soon as we are able to do so we will bring it forward and I am very pleased that we will be getting her support for that.

Tenant Fees Bill

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Monday 5th November 2018 Grand Committee

[Baroness Grender]

May I contribute to that question by saying that it has already been done with regard to default? Can the Minister explain the difference between that and the holding deposit, in terms of being specific about transparency in regulations?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, those are two very separate points. On guidance versus regulations, the noble Lord will be aware—not least because I have just said so—that these parallel matters have been dealt with in guidance on many pieces of legislation, under successive Governments of all colours. It is a judgment, but we feel that guidance is appropriate.

The point on the default fees—although this is still being discussed—is a matter of judgment, and it is the judgment we have made. As the noble Baroness will be aware, there are points in the guidance on the default fees—it is not all in the legislation; some of it is in the legislation, some in the guidance. There is also a substantial amount about the default fees in the guidance; it is not all in the legislation.

[Baroness Grender]

I thank the Minister, especially for agreeing to take a look at multiple holdings. I look forward to working with him and his team on the guidance. There is some guidance, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, will be very relieved to hear that there is a suggestion in it that a tenant might produce a typo, but no suggestion that any landlord would do so. I am using a small example of something I have spotted already in the drafting. I very much appreciate that the guidance is a draft at the moment, and therefore I thank the noble Lord for the opportunity to sit down and work through the guidance to make sure that there is parity between tenants and landlords. There seem to be one or two disparities that I have already picked up from my brief reading of it over the weekend. That, in a way, is why I still want to pursue—and I am very happy to discuss with officials and the Minister—the possibility of getting some regulations to introduce transparency in holding deposits. I look forward to those discussions, but it may be that we will need to pursue this further on Report, depending on those discussions. With that, I beg leave to withdraw this amendment.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

On the guidance, I accept the noble Lord’s point that it is a question of judgment and that he can point to other legislation where guidance is provided for in regulations. But does he accept that if it is guidance rather than regulations, that guidance is weaker because it does not have statutory back-up? That is the point I am making. The Bill addresses tenants’ fees, which we all agree are a problem. If the Government continue with the choice they are making at the moment, what they are offering people is weaker than if it was put in regulations. My other point is that if something does not happen on deposit fees—perhaps in regulations—this will be totally ignored.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who participated in the debate on this important section of the Bill. To echo the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, this is about dealing with the small minority of tenants and landlords. I accept that the vast majority will not need the encouragement we are giving. That said, there is a difficult issue involved, as outlined quite fairly by the noble Baroness, Lady Grender. However, I take a slightly different view on it, so let me outline where I am. I am of course happy to carry on discussing this ahead of Report, so that we can get to a sensible position on it.

There are situations where it is quite reasonable that a landlord should be able to claim from the tenant for doing something that is perhaps the tenant’s obligation but which the landlord has taken up. We have heard some examples and there will be others that we have not thought of—I do not suppose anybody except the noble Earl had thought about condensation until today, but we are now aware that that situation perhaps needs to be covered. We are not necessarily going to be able to think of an exhaustive list, but the list we are looking at does not relate to damage.

It is not appropriate that a replacement key should come out of the deposit; the deposit is there to counteract damage that is done. That would be true of a locksmith coming in as well. How will that be shown to be a reasonable cost? It has to be evidenced in writing: for example, with the receipt from Timpson. I do not think anybody could reasonably object to that. It is entirely right. There is a whole jurisprudence on reasonableness, and I can happily supply it all to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy—it runs to volumes and volumes in the law of negligence and elsewhere, as the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, will certainly be aware. This is an area in which there is substantial jurisprudence. We can give some examples but giving an exhaustive definition will take some time.

I share the view of the noble Lord, Lord Best, that it would not be appropriate to evict a tenant or to say that that has to happen in this type of situation. I think that a landlord would be very happy to renew a tenancy if he was able to claim in relation to lost keys and a locksmith being called out, and there is no reason why he should not be able to do that.

I am very keen to look at this issue ahead of Report to see how we can perhaps tighten it up, as I accept that there might be a need to do that. However, there are legitimate situations where it is not unreasonable for the landlord, during the currency of the lease—not at the end of the lease, when the deposit will kick in—to be able to claim for the cost of work that has been done. It is no more and no less than that. I recognise that we want to stop any potential abuse by the small minority of landlords whom we all have in our sights, but I hope that the noble Baroness will accept that there are legitimate situations that we can look at ahead of Report while trying to isolate the cases where there is abuse. With that assurance, I respectfully ask her to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness Grender]

I thank the Minister very much for that reply. I would of course welcome the opportunity to work with him and officials to try to tighten up this provision. This area goes to the very heart of where we all started out, so I see getting this right as absolutely fundamental. I am more than happy to work with the Minister on this and, with that prospect in mind, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Housing: Short-Term Lets

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Thursday 19th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am due to meet the noble Lord to discuss some of his concerns and I look forward to that. I am not sure, but I think he is probably referring to tax treatment. We are certainly looking at tax issues in this area and related to second homes more widely. My honourable friend Rishi Sunak, the Minister in the other place, is currently looking at this. Again, I look forward to discussing some of the noble Lord’s individual concerns.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House when the Rough Sleeping and Homelessness Reduction Taskforce last met? Further, will he ask it to consider the impact of Airbnb on homelessness, given that it has been estimated by Inside Airbnb that in London alone, nearly a quarter of secure tenancies that could be available are now affected by Airbnb?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I will have to write to the noble Baroness on the precise date of the last meeting of the Rough Sleeping Advisory Panel. I know that it is active in looking at these issues, but I will give the noble Baroness an update on the position and place a copy of that letter in the Library.

Rough Sleeping

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Thursday 1st February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right about the need to avoid silo thinking, which is why the homelessness task force, which will meet shortly, is a cross-government approach. He will appreciate that we announced that recently. As I say, the advisory committee is meeting for the first time this morning and includes representatives of Crisis and Shelter, such as Polly Neate, and mayors such as Andy Burnham and Andy Street. That, too, will be vitally important. This is a complex problem. The figures in the noble Lord’s own Borough of Lewisham, for example, have gone up 30% over the last period, according to the most recent statistics we have, but other boroughs are doing a good job, such as Cambridge, which is Labour-controlled, and Staffordshire, which is Conservative-controlled. So the housing-first approach that they are adopting is a very good one.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister consider a small, simple and immediate step, which is to reverse the cut in housing benefit for 18 to 21 year-olds? The cut was snuck in on a Friday afternoon by secondary legislation, and the savings are negligible. If just 140 young people are homeless out of the 10,000 affected in one year, it will start to cost the state more, not less. It is a simple measure that could be immediately changed. Why not get on with it and do it?

Homelessness

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right about the Homelessness Reduction Act being at the centre of our action—in this regard, a preventive measure. I echo what he said about Marcus Jones’s role in that; it was considerable, as indeed was that of the noble Lord in seeking to ensure the Bill went through this House with government support, and I pay tribute to him as well. I can confirm that the money that was committed under the new burdens doctrine—from memory, some £71 million—is being made available to help with the implementation of the Act. It is, as I said, very much at the centre of the action in this area.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, did the Minister see the Liberal Democrat report last week on empty properties, which revealed that there are well over 200,000 empty properties, of which one-quarter have been empty for five years or much longer? Given the negligible use of empty dwelling management orders, will the Minister undertake an urgent review of resource and powers for local councils so that they can bring those long-term empty properties back into use and help homeless families?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I have not had the privilege of seeing that literature as yet, but I anticipate having the opportunity to look at it at some stage. The noble Baroness will know that there were powers in the Budget to ensure that the ability to charge a higher rate of council tax on empty properties is increased. That is being done. She will be aware also that the numbers have come down considerably over the past decade, although admittedly there is work still to be done.

Budget Statement: Social Housing

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Thursday 21st December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Shipley, and at his request, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, this Government’s priorities are to boost housing supply and to build more affordable homes, supporting the different needs of a wide range of people. This is why we have recently announced £2 billion of additional funding for social rent in our flexible affordable homes programme, increasing the budget to over £9 billion, and a £1 billion lift to the housing revenue account borrowing cap in areas of high-affordability pressure. This allows providers to have the flexibility and agility to respond to local needs and markets, building the right homes in the right places. The precise number of homes and tenure types will depend on the bids received.

[Baroness Grender]

As this Government promised an increase in social housing in both the 2015 and the 2016 Budgets, but built less social housing last year than at any time since the Second World War—indeed, it has fallen by 50% in the last three years—why on earth should we believe them this time and this year, when every social home not built last year means another family homeless this Christmas? Why not lift the cap on all local authorities and allow council house building to begin again?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, the noble Baroness is right that this is a significant challenge. The reason that she and noble Lords should accept that this measure is genuine is the £2 billion uplift in the Budget. In the new year, we will announce proposals for how that will be spent, and what measure of it will be on social housing. The noble Baroness should also bear in mind that, although there is great pressure on social housing in areas of high affordability, we are able to build more affordable houses with a certain amount of money than social houses—so it is a question of getting the balance right. That is why we are focusing this measure on areas of high affordability rather than applying it across the country as a whole, as she suggested.

Homelessness: Temporary Accommodation

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 19th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness went on, she began to exhibit just how complex an issue this is. It is not simple. It is an issue partly to do with addiction and with mental health, and partly about people coming out of secure environments such as the forces and prisons. We are working with the Ministries of Defence and Justice, which are central to this. It is not a small ambition to halve homelessness by 2022 and eliminate it totally by 2027. I look forward to seeing support and ideas from around the House on how we can tackle a very complex issue.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with the UK Statistics Authority that a complete picture on homelessness must include prevention and relief in addition to statutory homelessness? Will he commit to include in any future change in data people who are in work but sleeping rough or in temporary accommodation—as astonishing as those the figures are, as shown on Channel 4 last night?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I very much regret that I did not have the privilege of seeing that programme last night but I will try to catch up on it. It is a complex issue, as the noble Baroness rightly says. It is not just about looking at the statistics, as she will know, but at what is happening in communities up and down the country. Last Friday, I was in Chesterfield seeing what is happening there, a town that is not a metropolitan area, and finding that agencies are engaged in tackling it, as is the faith community. Interestingly, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, will be pleased to know that the vicar of Chesterfield was formerly a Catholic and has become a Protestant. The noble Lord might like to engage with him to find out some of what he has been doing. It is important to engage all the institutions. I will certainly go back and have a look at the point that the noble Baroness made about the statistics.

Social Housing

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Tuesday 21st November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord knows that I agree with his general point that over successive Governments the social rented sector has been somewhat neglected, and we are certainly looking to make up some of the shortfall. As I said, we have had a record year—the best for a decade—but that does not make us complacent. There is an awfully long way to go, but we have a great battery of policies and, as the noble Lord rightly says, we await tomorrow’s Budget.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that affordable housing is 30% more expensive than social housing for rent? The fact that there has been such a shortfall in the building of social rented housing—the worst since World War II—will impact directly on the 65,000 families who will be homeless this Christmas. Can he give them an assurance that developers’ loopholes will be closed tomorrow in the Budget?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I hear what the noble Baroness says. I do not know what is in the Budget, so am unable even to slip up and say what will be in it. She is right that social rent is set at about 60% of market rent, whereas affordable rent is set at 80%. Of course, there is a conundrum in switching from one heading to another, as it means that there will be less affordable housing if more social housing is built. As noble Lords have rightly said, we await tomorrow’s Budget.

Property Agents: Registration

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that contribution—and would indeed encourage the agricultural sector, as he indicated, to participate in relation to tenanted arrangements and managing agents in this consultation. He put his finger on the nub of the issue. Without wanting to prejudge the consultation, it is remarkable that no qualifications or training are required for this sector. These are the things, inter alia, that we are seeking evidence about and views on in this consultation.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the reassurance that letting agency fees will be banned—and soon. But I know that he will understand the frustration that Members of the House have that the consultation was announced a year ago and ended five months ago. For every day that we wait, there are tenants on very low incomes who are teetering on the brink of homelessness. As the consultation paper said at the time, one in seven has to pay more than £500 in fees—which is often a burden on those with the lowest incomes, because agents tend to charge them a higher level and they tend to move more often. Every day that there is a delay on this, people are literally teetering on the verge of—and some are shifting into—homelessness. So I urge that “soon” should be not just soon but tomorrow.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it will be soon. I am not sure that it will be tomorrow but it will be soon. I thank the noble Baroness for her customary patience and I understand the frustration that she must feel. She will know that there have been events over the past five months that have conspired to contribute to the delay, but she can rest assured that we are determined to take this forward. I think that she will be reassured very shortly and I look forward to talking with her and progressing this through the House.

Housing: Lettings Fees

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Thursday 19th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to implement the ban on lettings fees announced in the 2016 Autumn Statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

The Government are committed to introducing legislation as soon as possible to implement the ban on letting agent fees for tenants. We will consult in March/April on the detail of the ban and will consider the views of property agencies, landlords, tenants and other stakeholders before introducing legislation. Impact assessments will follow the consultation and support the detail of banning fees to tenants.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

Does the Minister understand our need to see the small print, given the arguments he made against the proposal during the progress of my Private Member’s Bill? Does he recognise that all fees—up-front, renewal and exit—charged to tenants need to be included in the ban for it to work?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, I pay tribute to the work that the noble Baroness does on this matter. With her background in Shelter, she certainly knows what she is talking about. It is important that we have detailed consultation. I am sure that she will be pleased to hear that officials were in Scotland yesterday to learn lessons from there. I have sympathy with a wide-ranging ban on fees, although we have to be careful to ensure that we get it right through the consultation. For example, if somebody loses their key, it is legitimate that they should pay the letting agent for getting a new one. But I agree with the general thrust of what she says.

Homelessness

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Wednesday 21st December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the work that Crisis does in this area, particularly at Christmas. I am sure that we have all seen the great efforts that it makes. The noble Lord is right that often these complex housing needs are met by complex health needs as well, particularly in the field of mental health. We are seeking to address these issues across government by working with our partners in other government departments as well as with the charitable sector. But the noble Lord is absolutely right, there is a very close allied problem in relation to mental health.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister confident in his figures? Are they robust? Is he convinced that it is accurate to compare today with 2003 in the way that he has; or, one year on from being asked to take urgent action, can DCMS still be accused by the UK Statistics Authority of potentially misleading on homelessness? Is the Minister confident in his figures, yes or no?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

Yes, my Lords. They are not my figures, they are government figures and I trust them entirely.

Renters’ Rights Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Grender

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 18th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grender]

If the Minister believes that there will be an impact on rents, can he cite evidence of any research done by the Government into the changes in Scotland, given that at the moment we have one piece of research that says—and I say it again—120 landlords were surveyed and only one had put up costs as a result of the change in Scotland? Does he have some alternative research to present?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness will have heard me say very clearly that we are awaiting the outcome of both the working groups looking at the issue. They will provide important evidence and will have looked at this issue in far greater detail than I have, so I anticipate looking at that when we have the report. I want to take this away and consider it further. I am not opposing the amendment; I am expressing reservations. The noble Baroness and other noble Lords have raised some important issues. I will take this away: we really do need to see the evidence. I hope noble Lords will understand that this is an evidence-based approach that I want to be pragmatic about.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Lord will have previously heard me and the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow. There is an issue of housing supply across the board. There is no question of that: it has been a problem for successive Governments and we have to address it. It is not as simple as addressing a particular part of the problem: it is across the board. There are challenges in all the sectors: private rented, social rented and owner occupied. This is not a straightforward issue and we have to be careful that any changes that we make do not have impacts elsewhere. I therefore want to reflect on this in a positive way and consider all the evidence.

[Baroness Grender]

Noble Lords will not be surprised to hear that, as the promoter of the Bill, I am minded to accept my own amendment. There is no doubt that there are good lettings agents out there who are members of government-accredited redress schemes and pursue best practice. They should continue to charge a fee for the work that they do but the fee should be from the landlord, who can shop around and choose which lettings agency to use. Landlords can decide to use the decent, regulated ones. I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, for bringing the Committee the perspective from the private sector, which is critically important. I again praise Dorrington Residential, one of London’s leading private sector residential landlords. It has announced that it will work only with lettings agencies which agree not to charge renters any fees. In its own words, it cannot see why other landlords and the Government do not follow suit. There is evidence that it can work and does not impact adversely on the private sector. It is advocated by some private sector landlords, which I praise for doing so.

Citizens Advice produced a report entitled Still Let Down, which found that 18% of letting agents were still not members of a redress scheme, despite this being required since October 2014. Only 4% of renters knew the name of the scheme of which their agent was a member. Generation Rent researched 720 agency websites, of which 96 had no fees published and 240 did not list, as they should, which redress scheme they belong to. We heard from the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, whom I thank for his support, about the spurious and unreadable small print. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best. The critical issue, which is not covered in the Bill, is housing benefit and universal credit and the attitude of private sector landlords to it. This is, of course, why we need a healthy, burgeoning social rented sector and we need to build more social housing. I expect with a heavy heart a White Paper which is coming in two weeks. According to an exclusive which I read in the Sun yesterday, this will tell us to build higher and higher—a new whizzo wheeze. I still say that we should give the money to local authorities, or remove the cap, and let them build. We all hold our hands up; there is a 30-year legacy which all of us in government have owned, but building social housing is now critical and we have to get on with it.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, for her support and long years of campaigning in this area. I am sure that all tenants are grateful for this and her pursuit of trying to sort through the complicated issue of leaseholds. The purpose of Amendment 1 is to simplify: it takes away all the lists and bans all lettings fees, but allows the Secretary of State to specify exemptions through regulations. I think that is a better and tidier way of doing it. However, if the Government were to kindly indulge me with a Report stage, I would be happy to work with the noble Baroness and look at any tidying up that could be done to accommodate that issue.

The noble Baroness said that the money has to come from somewhere. I again refer to the experience so far in Scotland. I am very happy to look at alternative evidence on this but so far the evidence is that rents did not go up. However, let us assume that the noble Baroness is correct and rents go up. If they did so, they would be eased out over a 12-year period. I have another example publicised by the BBC yesterday of a lady, Lucy Surridge, who has spent nine weeks living in a hostel in Dagenham, east London, with her 11 year-old daughter and six year-old son. She is a full-time school chef and was made homeless when her landlady sold the property. She is 29 and has approached several agencies, which have told her that she needs to earn £38,500 before they would consider renting to her, and she would need £3,500 in deposit fees. I challenge most noble Lords, bar the obviously extremely wealthy ones, to find that kind of ready cash immediately. That is the critical question we are addressing, that of up-front cash in such cases. I have an 11 year-old who is applying to secondary schools, but I have a fixed and permanent address. However, the two ladies I have described are applying for places in secondary school for their children from an unclear and unfixed address. I know that everyone is up in arms about Brexit, but why we are not rioting on the streets about this is frankly beyond me.

I pay tribute to the Debrief organisation, which has campaigned to make renting fairer and has many examples of people who have experienced exorbitant tenancy fees. A lady called Emily has talked to me. She has moved four times in four years, only once out of choice. Her most recent moving fee was £1,850. She has had to pay that sum up front four times. When this Bill was initiated, most people who contacted me were young professionals living in London. However, as the Bill has been publicised, a striking number of older people have contacted me with similar issues. Whatever we think of the private rented sector and its suitability for tenants on low incomes, we are stuck with that form of tenure for a while. Government data released yesterday show that the affordable housing stock is growing at the lowest rate since 1992—52% lower than last year. Lack of affordable homes is forcing more and more people into the private rented sector, so we are stuck with the private rented sector as an immediate stop-gap solution, even if we could all wave our magic wands and instantly start building social housing at a very fast pace. Therefore, we have to make the private rented sector suitable for people on low incomes.

For all those reasons, I particularly thank the Minister for saying that this is not the end of the journey on this amendment, and that he will consider it. I very much like the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Best, which I will call the Hayter/Palmer precedent. I see that as a very valuable way to move forward on this. I am aware, of course, that there is a working group and people are holding meetings to discuss this. However, at some point people will be at loggerheads and the Government will have to make a decision. I beg the Government to make a decision in favour of the tenants I have described.

Finally, I thank my noble friends on these Benches—and my noble friend Lord Shipley, in particular—for their support for this area of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tope, for moving these amendments and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for his brief contribution. If approved, these amendments would require the Secretary of State to introduce regulations requiring landlords and/or their agents to ensure that electrical safety standards are met in their rental properties. I am conscious that many noble Lords, rightly, feel strongly about electrical safety—I also pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Tope, for his campaigning role on this—and that it has raised considerable debate. I also know that Shelter has campaigned on this; I pay tribute to its role.

Yet again, the Government are taking a measured and pragmatic approach. As noble Lords have appreciated, we have taken an enabling power in the Housing and Planning Act 2016 that allows us to introduce requirements on regular electrical safety checks in rented properties at a future date. It has also been stated, correctly, that we have established an electrical safety working group and are working with experts from across the sector to fully assess whether regulations are needed and, if so, to determine the detailed options for regulation. It would therefore not be appropriate for me to say, “These are the regulations that we will bring forward” or to give a date when we will bring them forward, because we are awaiting the report. The working group has met twice, is due to meet again in the coming weeks, and it is due to present its reports to Ministers by the end of this calendar year.

Six months is an appropriate period in this regard; it is entirely right that on something of this nature we look to a working group to report in a six-month period, and that is what we are doing. The Government will then need to consider it and will of course do so—it is an important issue. I am afraid that I cannot give an undertaking about when regulations will come forward if they come forward. I will not say “in due course”, “timely” or “coming shortly”. However, the Government take this issue seriously, and I can understand the spirit in which these important amendments have been tabled. I can provide the reassurance that the Government regard this as important and will carefully consider the report of the safety group.

However, as I said, it would be premature to commit to legislation, and particularly the scope of any legislation, before the working group has concluded its research and before we have had a chance to look at it and consider what is appropriate in the light of that research.

[Baroness Grender]

My Lords, again it will not surprise the House to hear that I am minded to accept Amendments 2 and 3. This is a Government leaning on the rented sector for support, like leaning on a walking stick that has woodworm, damp and dry rot. We need to improve the rented sector to meet the needs of people over at least the next decade, if not two. Shelter’s research states that one-third of privately rented homes in England do not meet the Government’s decent homes standard, while almost one-fifth pose serious health and safety hazards. The lack of compulsory electrical checks plays a significant part in that.

As I conclude on the final part of this amendment, I would like to pay tribute to Electrical Safety First, which has been campaigning, along with my noble friend Lord Tope, to bring about these changes. More widely, I would like to thank Debrief and its petition, Generation Rent, Shelter, Crisis and Citizens Advice, all of which supported the Bill. I would also like to thank Hull City Council, which yesterday passed a motion at full council supporting the Bill. The motion was proposed by Liberal Democrat Councillor Charles Quinn and supported by Labour councillors. I am sure that the Minister will be pleased to hear that Conservative Councillors John Fareham and John Abbott also voted in favour in Hull, because all three parties think that renters now need a fairer deal and that getting rid of up-front costs will help.

I want to take the opportunity to say that I am pleased that the earlier clause on rogue landlords received the support of the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner. That information should be publicly available in the same way that, for instance, employers who flout the national minimum wage are made public. I see no reason why information on rogue landlords cannot similarly be made public.

In conclusion, and in the knowledge that there possibly will not be a Report stage for the Bill, I want to say that we on these Benches will not let any of the issues in the Bill rest here. My colleague Tom Brake in the Commons will take up as many of them as he can. If a White Paper is to be forthcoming, we will try to ensure that all four of the substantive clauses are continued through other legislation. In particular, we will continue to pursue, with some passion and vigour, the issue of up-front costs to tenants, which is hurting tenants every day.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

Before the noble Lord, Lord Tope, decides what he will do with his amendment, I want to say that I worry that the Minister’s use of the word “measured” is another euphemism for “in due course”. Will the Minister please take back to the department the strength of feeling here? Although six months may seem a relatively short time, this issue has been around for a very long time. As the noble Lord, Lord Tope, said, we really have to sort out the electrical safety check to prevent deaths. The Government have the power and we need to resolve this sooner rather than later.