Public Conveniences

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Brinton

Thursday 11th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, on the cabbies’ business, the noble Lord told me how his brother drove past him in his cab the other day—I could well understand his point of view. The noble Lord mentioned the important Use Our Loos campaign, which the British Toilet Association is supportive of—I was going to say “behind”. Unfortunately, it is advertised on its website as an “open doors” campaign—the inverted commas are useful. Seriously, it is a very worthwhile campaign. I have good news on Waterloo. All the mainline stations in London now have free toilet entrance, which is a good thing. The Department for Transport is encouraging other train operators to do similarly.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned Changing Places. The disabled community and disabled taxi drivers are very grateful for the £2 million that the Department for Transport was given for Changing Places at service stations. However, provision is still woeful—only 18 out of 100 service stations have Changing Places facilities. Will the Government provide specific grants to local authorities for Changing Places toilets? With public conveniences being closed down everywhere, disabled people, particularly disabled children, need proper places for changing. There is a woeful lack of them in town centres.

Housing: Accessibility

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Brinton

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I pay tribute to all the work done by the noble Baroness in this area. We worked together on the Neighbourhood Planning Bill, which was then enacted, and made some important provisions in it about disabled and elderly people which I referred to earlier. She is emphasising the point I made, which is that not only is this the right moral thing to do in a civilised society but it is also very much the right economic thing to do because it will save money for the health service and so on, as well as helping people to live longer in the sort of circumstances that they would want.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for the meeting last week, which was extraordinarily helpful. In addition to stiffening the sinews of the Home Builders Federation, would the Minister write to local councils to point out the data that shows that it costs only just over £1,000 to make a new unit disabled-friendly when building it, whereas later adaptations cost a minimum of £20,000? Councils should therefore insist on access being put in right at the start. That is beneficial to them and to the wider community.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Baroness for that suggestion. I will certainly take it back to the Minister so that it can be picked up in the next letter we write to local authority leaders. She and the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, will be aware that we are ensuring that the voice of Habinteg—an active housing association with a vision on this issue for disabled people—is heard. It is a strong voice on Document M for the advisory committee, which is looking at this issue. I think that the House will find that reassuring.

Tower Blocks: Dangerous Cladding

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Brinton

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for his comment about our thoughts being with the people affected. He had two specific questions relating to Dame Judith Hackitt’s review into safety and fire measures. He is absolutely right: Dame Judith did say that she was not necessarily opposed to a ban. I think her point in the review was that the whole building system needed to be looked at; she did not want it to be felt that this is, as it were, a silver bullet. The consultation on the ban we are considering will be of appropriate length. Of course, there is a process to be gone through, as the noble Lord will appreciate, and I have not got the exact measure of how long that will be. If it becomes available, I will certainly write to the noble Lord and share that with other noble Lords, but there is a process to be gone through and, although we do not want to hang about, we do want to do the right thing. We obviously do not want to be called to account for not doing this appropriately.

I can confirm that £400 million is an estimate of the cost. We are unable to know exactly what it will be, but essential work for councils and housing associations will be covered. Our best estimate is in the measure of £400 million, but it is an estimate.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the APPG on Fire Safety and Rescue. I echo the thoughts of my noble friend and the noble Lords towards the families and survivors of the Grenfell tragedy, particularly today as the other inquiry gets under way.

I am very concerned that the length of time that this might take for private sector blocks will put leaseholders under real concern. There are already reports that some builders are talking about £4 million-plus for very large buildings. How long will the consultation last, and what will the Government do, and by when, to step in if private sector freeholders still try to pass costs on to leaseholders?

Secondly, it is quite clear from the Hackitt review that increased inspection powers for both fire and building control will be required. Will the Government look at ensuring that local government and fire services have increased funding specifically to cover this? They cannot do it out of existing resources.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, for her thoughts for the families and the bereaved. Clearly, today must be a very difficult day, more than usually so. I commend the work that she does on fire safety and rescue, which I know is considerable. She had some specific questions about leaseholders and how long we would be consulting in relation to private buildings. It is not a formal consultation but a series of round-table meetings that the Secretary of State will be holding, the first of which is coming up very shortly. We will see how that goes. But as the Answer that I repeated indicated, we rule nothing out and we are determined that those who can bear the costs should do so. I commend what Barratt has done, for example, in relation to Citiscape in Croydon. We hope that that is repeated.

The noble Baroness also asked about the increased funding that may be necessary in light of the consultation that we will have in relation to the reform of the regulatory system, and so on. Obviously, there is a doctrine of increased burdens having to be funded, if increased burdens there are, and we would expect that to apply in the normal way.

Building Safety Update

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Brinton

Thursday 15th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I echo the comments that the Minister and other colleagues have made about the sympathy that goes to those who have survived the Grenfell Tower fire, and also the resilience they have shown in trying to move on with their lives afterwards. I declare an interest as a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group. Anybody who has an interest in fire safety realises that compartmentalisation is absolutely vital to the safety of a building. This is now the third breach of compartmentalisation that has become apparent: first it was the cladding, then the block in Camden where we know there was a breach of compartmentalisation from putting in new gas central heating arrangements, and now there are concerns about this fire door. Compartmentalisation is absolutely at the heart of the stay-put policy. I think we need reassurance that the slight complacency in the Statement that this is not a general issue, is absolutely not the case. It is easy to talk about a “batch” of fire doors, but how big is the batch? Have there been tests on other fire doors of different makes to check that they still meet the 30-minute compartmentalisation fire resistance?

Dame Judith Hackitt, in her interim report, talked about two key findings: improving the process, competence and enforcement of regulations, and improving testing, marketing and the quality assurance of products. I know that the Government have been saying that they will wait until Dame Judith Hackitt reports with her full report, but this particular incident means that we have to move forward now to look at compartmentalisation. This affects not just high-rise blocks but every rented block of flats in the country as well. Can the Minister assure us that there will be a Statement as soon as possible on whether it is just this one type of fire door or a more general problem, and also if it is possible to track where those doors have been placed, or whether there has to be a general request to go out and identify them.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for the very important role that she fulfils in the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group, which is absolutely vital. There is certainly no intention of complacency on the part of the Government. There is, however, a need to balance this with what we know at the moment. I quite appreciate that the avenues of investigation that the noble Baroness referred to are totally appropriate. We will ensure—I know this will be happening anyway; Dame Judith Hackitt will be watching very closely what is said in both Houses of Parliament regarding her review—that she has all the content of this Statement in front of her, and she will be looking at that.

I appreciate what the noble Baroness is saying, but it will not be long before we get that final report and I feel it would be premature to look just at the interim report when some of this will be picked up in the final one. By the nature of it, I am sure this will also be looked at in the context of Grenfell by the Moore-Bick inquiry that is going on.

The noble Baroness asked for an assurance that there would be a Statement. I can give her that assurance; my right honourable friend in the other place has indicated that he would do so at the latest by the end of April. I echo that because these are important areas. There is no intention of complacency, and I appreciate the point being made that we need to look at this holistically.

Fire Safety: Lakanal House Fire

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Brinton

Tuesday 27th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it is not true to say that safety standards are set by the industry. They are set by the Government in consultation with the industry and the public sector. We take advice from many sources and we will do so again through the public inquiry that is now being set up. It is important that we do not prejudge this and that the public inquiry acts in a judicial way. It will be judge-led and will look at all the evidence before we come up with conclusions. That is the purpose of the inquiry.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, the coroner in the Lakanal House case actually cited some of the wider issues with the maintenance and refurbishment of buildings as well as their outer envelopes. I am slightly bemused that the Minister has said both today and yesterday that work has not yet started on the revision of part B regulations, because on 3 March 2015 the then Minister for Housing, Stephen Williams, announced that not only would the review start but that it would report back to Parliament in 2016-17 with a revised document. Can the Minister explain why this was stopped after the 2015 election and what interim steps will be taken before the result of the inquiry to make sure that we do not have to wait a long time before urgent changes can be made to these regulations?