Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 27th October 2025 Grand Committee

So we must resist these amendments, for my nephew and his cohort and now for younger children, who are not faced, as my nephew is, by the apparently insuperable challenge of breaking from addiction.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly on this group of amendments, which are regrettable, in my view. The previous Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, is to be applauded for what he did, as are the previous Government and this Government. This measure should be nothing to do with party politics.

Interestingly, this is a measure on health, but the proponents of the amendments have not so far mentioned the word “health”. We have heard many arguments, some of which I understand—I will address them briefly in a minute—but, in essence, this is a health measure and we have our own Health Minister, quite rightly, responding to this set of amendments. It is her measure and the Government’s measure. This is a health measure and we should not shy away from the fact that it will save lives.

Those proposing the amendments said they were in favour of bringing in restrictions—there is an age limit now—but they did not say that to me when they were proposing this. It did not sound like that. When I was preparing for this debate, I looked at this set of amendments and, at the back of my mind, I was vaguely reminded of something. I remembered what it was—and they will not like this comparison, so forgive me. It was when Jeremy Corbyn was supposedly in favour of Remain and went around giving speeches on it. Similarly, this proposal seems very half-hearted.

At the core of the current legislation is an age limit. This alters only the way that the age limit applies. The suggestion, in its hyperbole, is that we are going to face a Wild West of people opposing this and so on. Perhaps we need more resources on enforcement, and we certainly need to put in resources to anticipate what small businesses will be doing, but do not forget that this will be a gradual ban; it will not happen overnight. We also need to spend money on cessation services. All of that comes up in a later group of amendments.

These amendments address something outstanding that the Government are doing, which the previous Government were committed to. We should not shy away from it. We can improve this legislation, but this set of amendments would drive a coach and horses through what is necessary.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I find myself in difficulty in this debate. As many noble Lords will know, my party will have a free vote on the generational ban if any amendments are pushed on it. At Second Reading, I made my view about it very clear. I reaffirm my commitment to the aim of the Bill to reduce smoking and have a healthier nation, which is a crucial public health objective, and I support greater regulation that helps people quit and prevents addiction. I say that as somebody who saw both parents die of smoking-related illness, so I understand the effect that it has.

My worry about the Bill, and the reason I support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Murray, is the assumption that by banning something, demand will automatically go. It will not go; it will just be shifted to a different market: the black market. That is what will happen; evidence throughout history always shows that. The question is: will the Bill therefore be enforceable to the shift in demand to different markets?

At Second Reading, I raised the issue of proxy demand. Where people are legally able to buy, how on earth will trading standards and the police be able to police every single household in this country, where adults will share tobacco and cigarettes? That is what will happen. I ask the Minister directly whether it will be legal if someone in England who is not able to buy tobacco because they are deemed below the age threshold goes to Jersey, buys tobacco, brings it back and smokes it. Will they be deemed to be carrying out an illegal activity in the UK? Where we had booze runs in previous generations, will we have ciggie runs for this generation? It is a real question.

If somebody goes to France, buys cigarettes and then gives them to somebody back in the UK who is not deemed able to buy them in the UK, will the fact that they have bought them in France but given them to somebody in the UK be an illegal act? Smoking will not be illegal; it is the buying, so if somebody buys in a foreign country, will that be deemed illegal? These are really important questions. The whole enforcement of this relies on those kinds of questions being asked. I do not know the answers, so I ask these genuine questions.

I also worry about trading standards. I heard what the noble Lord said about trading standards, but I declare an interest as vice-president of the Local Government Association. Trading standards officers and organisations I speak to are very happy with what is being proposed but raise great questions about how enforcement will be carried out. They welcome the extra £30 million over the next five years but make it very clear that, in their view, three times that amount will be required to effectively enforce this. They also worry about rolling age verification, particularly as this goes into the future—distinguishing between a 30 year-old and a 31 year-old, as the noble Lord, Lord Murray, said. There will be a rolling issue of enforcement.

Finally, I made clear my fundamental philosophical issue at Second Reading and I shall not dwell on it today. The illicit trade already accounts for one in four cigarette sales. That is according to figures in Civil Service World. They are not HMRC figures. The Civil Service World article stated that, historically and to date, HMRC still underestimates the illegal trade and suggested that it is more like one in four sales. My view is that, by moving demand, we will move more of this into the illicit trade and therefore the enforcement will be even more.

I come back to my central point. Legislation in itself is useless if it cannot be enforced and I have no idea how proxy buying will be enforced in individual homes. People may say that they are not buying for somebody but then pass it on. I therefore believe that the Bill will not create the smoke-free generation that some want by having a generational ban. A cut-off point of an age, followed through with better regulation and better smoking cessation policy, with money paid by the tobacco industry for those things—there are amendments further down that we will come to on that—will be more effective than this view that a generational ban will magically stop the demand and stop younger people smoking throughout their lives.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 24 and 25 in this group. They were tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, who is unfortunately unwell today; I am speaking at his request.

These amendments would apply mandatory age-verification procedures for the sale of tobacco, vapes and non-medicinal nicotine products across England and Wales. Such provisions are in line with the provisions set out for Scotland in the Bill. Also in this group are the amendments in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Lansley, and the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, about which we have just heard. The amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, are, in his view, different.

First, they would apply to all tobacco products and not just vaping devices, as the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, would. Secondly, they would require decisive action on the policy to be applied for age verification, rather than an evidence review. The amendments do not prescribe specific methods for age verification; they simply state that age verification would be required.

Since these amendments were tabled and debated in the other place, the Government have announced plans for digital ID cards. This Bill defines “identification” in a broad way to make space for the option of digital ID—it is understood that that option will be used for alcohol sales soon—but it is separate from any kind of mandate on such forms of ID.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, wishes to point out that the successful implementation of the policy in this Bill will require a consistent, practical and enforceable approach to age verification. In his view, this should be in the Bill. He points out that, in Scotland, there is already legal underpinning to the Challenge 25 policy; the Bill adapts this for the rising age of sale. However, there is no such legal basis in England and Wales. These amendments would remove this inconsistency by extending such an underpinning to England and Wales; he feels that it should also be extended to Northern Ireland, although that is not covered in the amendments currently tabled.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, is, therefore, seeking to provide across Great Britain consistency, clarity for both retailers and consumers, and protection for retailers who, as other noble Lords mentioned earlier, might be on the front line in implementing the policy and finding the challenges in that. He points out that, if age verification is a legal requirement, retailers can say, “It’s not me. It’s the law”, rather than shouldering the burden of difficult conversations with customers.

The Bill already creates an offence for retailers who sell tobacco to those born in or after 2009. The defence in law is that all reasonable steps were taken to ensure that the law was being followed. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, points out that this does not mean that retailers will be required to ask every customer for ID from 2027 onwards if, as in Scotland, the age of sale is obviously such that they do not need to proceed with an ID. He says that these amendments have the backing of retailers themselves. Polling shows that 83% of retailers in England support mandatory verification for under-25s, rising to 91% in Scotland where it is already law, and it provides them with clarity, protection and reassurance. The noble Lord also says that public support is equally strong, with 72% of adults in Great Britain favouring this approach.

This is not just about future generations; it is also about tackling a current problem. Despite the ban on sales to under-18s, data shows that around half of the young people who vape are buying them in shops. In fact, the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, said that the figure is actually higher than that. The amendment would make it clear to retailers that ID is required for not just tobacco but vapes and non-medicinal nicotine products. The Bill already allows flexibility; regulations can specify a wide range of acceptable forms of identification, including digital ID, as is already being introduced for alcohol sales.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, is acutely aware that the enforceability of this part of the Bill has been raised. He hopes that his amendments provide a practical solution that is a proportionate measure. Given that he could not be here, it seemed important to me that his amendments were spoken to so that the Minister can address these issues. I look forward to her response and I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Davies, will be very interested as well.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, I support the amendments proposed by my noble friend Lord Moylan on having the affirmative resolution procedure for statutory instruments. That seems wholly sensible.

On age verification, I strongly support the amendment proposed by my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham. Dealing with online sales is a real issue. We have the overseas experience of countries such as France, Mexico, Brazil and so on to look at, but this seems a neat solution to what could otherwise become a very real problem.

On the amendment proposed by my noble friend Lord Lansley, considerable work has been done on age gating in relation to vaping sales and, as he said, those who are vaping strongly support having some kind of process. We have the system being developed by IKE Tech in the USA, currently awaiting FDA approval, which provides a very neat and quick method of age verification via a smartphone app. It will enable adults to remain protected—it will take them only 90 seconds for the initial process and six seconds for every subsequent vape, so it will not take long. That seems a very sensible way of proceeding and I am interested to hear what the Minister has to say on that.

In relation to what the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, said about what the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, would have said, there is certainly an issue to be looked at. I strongly support looking at what has been working in Scotland. It seems sensible to look at what they have been doing, learn from their experience and follow it where appropriate. Again, I will be interested to hear what the Minister has to say on that issue.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, I do not think it is fair to ask a courier driver to verify the age of a person, so the noble Lord, Lord Young, has a very good point, and age verification online is very poor. The noble Lord, Lord Lansley, spoke about age gating. I can see why it is popular with retailers, because it would take some of the burden away from them.

It has been claimed that the Bill may not currently keep up with technology. Can the Minister say whether the wide powers in the Bill would allow powers to be taken in future to mandate age-gating technology if the evidence indicates that it is needed? Clearly, there is a problem even now with underage children buying vapes. A briefing that I—and I think quite a few other noble Lords—received from something called IKE Tech said that 71% of underage children buying vapes get them from retailers. That indicates that we need a really vigorous enforcement regime. It also said that 76% said they are buying them online, which indicates support for the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Young.

On the whole, when people buy from a retailer, I think that I am in favour of a wide range of means of age verification being acceptable. Both these amendments aim to reduce opportunities to start vaping underage, which is a very good thing, because young people who start vaping may not be killed by tobacco but they will be made addicted and very poor by the addiction to nicotine that they will get hooked on. I look forward to the Minister’s reply on that. I would not want to prevent an adult who could not obtain digital age verification buying an effective quitting tool, so we have to be a bit careful about unexpected consequences.

One thing that I saw in the briefing was interesting. The claim is that similar tech can also prevent circulation of illicit products by embedding low-cost NFC tags into product packaging so that every legal vape can be instantly verified; this stops fakes at the border and on shop shelves. That is something that we should all be concerned about, because drugs could well be inserted into vapes—and I understand that this is happening already—so people are getting things that they do not expect to get. Of course, something like that would not be legal and, if there was a tag on them to identify anything that is legal, you would only want to buy those. I know that teachers have reported problems with children being drugged by things that have been inserted into vapes, so that is something that we should consider.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, very briefly, I support the ambition of the amendments in this group, particularly my noble friend Lord Bethell’s amendment on tobacco extinction 2040, which is the level of ambition that we should be looking for. The Government are to be applauded for this measure, but we need not just a direction of travel but a destination, which this provides. I also very much agree that the end-point legislation that we have seen on asbestos and leaded petrol are examples of two very successful approaches that we could replicate here.

I also support the amendments in the names of my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham and the noble Baronesses, Lady Northover and Lady Grey-Thompson, from whom we have just heard. It is very important that we seek to tackle those areas that have the highest deprivation and suffer most from smoking. These amendments seek to do just that. I also agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, on the need for a clear communications strategy. That is central and should be led by the department, as she so rightly said.

[Lord Harlech (Con)]

My Lords, I want briefly to offer a slightly different perspective.

I understand the intent behind the Bill and my noble friend Lord Bethell’s Amendment 4 in this group. However, I believe that this amendment and the Bill as a whole lack some nuance in separating cigarettes from cigars and other tobacco products, which I will hereafter refer to as OTPs. If this were the cigarettes and vapes Bill, I would not have much issue with it, but there is a vast difference in mortality impact between cigar smokers and cigarette smokers. Cigars are not inhaled and are made from natural tobacco, while cigarettes are inhaled, are habitual, are used with high frequency and are often made with additives and chemicals.

I implore noble Lords and the Government to recognise this difference. The reason why is that we risk destroying a 500 year-old business with products that are made by artisans and are often, or almost exclusively, sold by independent family retailers who do not stock or sell cigarettes because cigars and OTPs are the only products that they sell. I draw attention to subsection (3)(b) of the new clause proposed by my noble friend’s Amendment 4, which refers to

“supporting tobacco retailers and businesses in transitioning away from tobacco product sales”.

If that said, “cigarette sales”, I would have no issue with it. If you are a large retailer such as Tesco, you can easily put something else in that shelf space; if you are a family business that sells only cigars, however, the impact of this measure is that you will go out of business.

By including cigars and OTPs in this amendment, we risk putting these family-owned, responsible traders out of business for a very negligible health gain; we also risk losing tourism and tax revenue at the same time. So can my noble friend and the Minister look again at separating cigarettes from cigars and OTPs, both in the Bill in general and in this amendment specifically?

Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes. I totally agree with the point she made about vaping and the need for research into the long-term effects of vaping—that is absolutely right.

This part of the speakers’ list looks like a Welsh odyssey, with speakers from Llanfaes in north Wales, Aberystwyth in mid Wales and, following me, my good friend, the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Burry Port, in south Wales. A tiny corner of the House of Lords Chamber is for ever Wales on St George’s Day.

I thank the Minister very much indeed for setting out the rationale of this legislation, which she did very effectively—it seems a long while ago now. I declare my interests as set out in the register.

This is the most significant piece of public health legislation for a generation and I think there is a danger that some of my colleagues may be losing sight of that. The mainspring of this legislation is to protect the health of generations to come and talk of an age limit of 21 does not achieve that. This legislation is remarkably like legislation introduced by the last Government under Rishi Sunak. I was very proud of that legislation and the current Government deserve some credit for bringing forward similar legislation, rather than to be attacked for bringing forward Tory legislation, as one noble Baroness put it. I am very pleased that this legislation is remarkably similar to the legislation we saw then.

It is fairly clear that this legislation is not perfect. This is Second Reading. There will be amendments and there will be discussions on funding for trading standards and how we combat illicit tobacco sales. It would be good to have some reliable figures on that. We have heard people bandying figures about. I do not think anybody really knows. Age verification is something we need to look at as well, but people talked about that as though it was difficult. I looked at my wallet because I was pretty confident that this was the case: your driving licence has your date of birth. You just have to show that—it is straightforward. I am not suggesting there are not issues with this legislation but that is not an insuperable one.

Against all this, we should not lose sight of the fact that smoking is the largest cause of death in the United Kingdom, causing some 74,000 deaths in 2019. Since the last election, over 100,000 young people will have taken up smoking. That is not something we should glory in by pretending this is some libertarian nirvana and they are all rushing to say, “Let’s exercise our freedom to smoke”. I do not believe for a minute that that is what is happening. Smoking, as we know, substantially increases the risk of major health conditions—heart disease, dementia, asthma, diabetes, and the list could go on.

The cost to the NHS is £3 billion a year and social care costs must be added to that. The time lost from smoking-induced illness costs £18 billion a year. The cost easily outweighs the revenue loss of £10 billion, so let us just nail that one.

It is a depressing national picture that is made up of many millions of individual heart-rending stories of loss of loved ones. We have heard today that everybody here will have been touched by somebody in their family, somebody they know, perhaps many people they know, who have lost years of their life or had bad health at the end of their life brought about by smoking. Ranged against that we have some people arguing for, as I say, a libertarian nirvana of allowing teenagers to smoke to exercise their fundamental freedom. I look forward to seeing a petition from those suffering from smoking-induced illnesses, or from their families or friends, to halt this legislation. I do not suppose we will be seeing that, to add to the objections of the tobacco industry.

I will say a quick word about vaping. Like many others, I agree that vaping appears to be less deleterious than smoking. It would be good to have further information and evidence on that. Seen correctly as an aid to quit smoking it could be encouraged, within that narrow band, but there is nothing desirable about vaping. It is not great—it is just better than smoking. I support age-gating technology to ensure that those using vapes are those who could legitimately smoke. To that extent, it is to be welcomed.

This is powerful, desirable legislation. I hope we will support it as it goes forward on the basis that it is good legislation which can be improved.

Covid-19: Aligning UK and Foreign Entry and Return Requirements

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 19th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s question has behind it a genuine dilemma. The amount of genomic sequencing in countries around the world is limited. No other country has the degree of genomic sequencing that we have here in the UK, and we do not have perfect vision of what variants of concern are present in other countries, including even in France. We work very closely with Governments, including that of France, to have access to whatever data they have—but, to an extent, we are operating with imperfect data.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, clearly, as international travel restrictions ease, co-ordination of travel rules will become imperative. In that regard, will the Minister impress on colleagues in government the good sense of Britain leading the way internationally in ensuring that vaccination records are carried in passports, to demonstrate the vaccine histories of those travelling? This will speed checks, make them secure and promote an international approach to vaccine-secure travel.

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend that co-ordination of vaccine certification is a massive priority. We are working extremely closely, particularly with our close friends in America and the EU, to have mutual recognition of certification. Whether that certification is tied to the passport is up to the tastes of local countries. In the UK we are putting certification in the NHS app, and it feels right that that should be contained and limited to health records rather than national identity documents. However, each country will have its own approach.

Coronavirus Act 2020 (Early Expiry) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I thank my noble friend for setting out the early expiry regulations, which I support. As we have heard, these regulations provide for the early expiry of 12 temporary provisions. I note that nine of them are devolved matters and that the Secretary of State has obtained the necessary consent on behalf of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. These regulations are multifaceted, applying to matters as diverse as the retention of DNA and fingerprints, food safety, emergency volunteering and General Synod elections. As we note the lack of need for emergency volunteers in these expiring regulations, I note the great resilience of our NHS and its staff as we mark its 73-year anniversary and its merited award of the George Cross by Her Majesty yesterday. Like many others, I hope that the efforts of NHS and care staff are recognised by the pay review process.

The varied nature of these regulations also illustrates the broad canvas that my noble friend is expected to cover—indeed, does cover—every day in this House. I commend him for his Trojan work effort. On that subject, I wish to stretch his reach and possibly his patience a little further. These regulations do not renew the provisions relating to tenancies, so there are limited opportunities to raise these matters. I have given my noble friend advance notice that I would raise this issue, but if he does not have all the detail to hand, I would appreciate a response in writing.

Until the end of May 2021, there were restrictions, quite justifiably, on the eviction of tenants unable to pay their rent because of the Covid pandemic. This meant that for many tenants housing rent arrears were piling up. The debt was still due but could not be enforced in that period, quite understandably. That came to an end at the end of May. Thus, from the start of June, the possibility of eviction arises again. This will not mean that the tenant has the money to pay the rent, so the landlord enforcing the provision will not necessarily—probably will not—get the rent. It prejudices the tenant in a dreadful way, and it undermines the landlord/tenant market in general. This is only going to get worse as we enter the summer now that evictions can happen again.

This problem has been highlighted on many occasions in your Lordships’ House, as well as in the other place. I have done so, and many others have too, including, outside your Lordships’ House, the National Residential Landlords Association, which has pressed for interest-free hardship loans for tenants to pay-off their Covid-related rent arrears. This would help landlords and tenants and would help preserve the important landlord and tenant market so essential to the country’s housing needs. I press this upon my noble friend.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Steps and Other Provisions) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 7th June 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler of Enfield. I very much agree with her concluding comments about the fact that there is no freedom day: we will not go back to normal, certainly not in the short term. It is, as my noble friend Lord Lansley also said, a matter of accommodating our processes and adjusting to the new realities. I also thank my noble friend the Minister for setting out so clearly and concisely, as he always does, the effect of these regulations and for updating the Committee on the four tests or factors affecting the lifting of regulations.

I support the regulations but I regret that we are not seeing them in advance of their coming into force. I hope my noble friend can say something about a future scenario where we can perhaps expect that, as we move to a position where the regulations will not be so restrictive. It would be good to hear my noble friend’s views on that.

I support the regulations and the policy of stepped moves out of lockdown. That seems the right way forward. The easing of restrictions on outside gatherings and those attending funerals is absolutely appropriate. It is right that this phased approach is taken towards restrictions and that they are relaxed as the evidence demonstrates that a letting up on restrictions is appropriate. That is the right approach.

Like others, I congratulate the Government and my noble friend on the success of the vaccination programme. It has been outstanding. It is only fair that that should be acknowledged. It is at the centre of the Government’s success in this area and a tribute to the National Health Service, volunteers and all those concerned.

What remains a major challenge, as identified by others speaking in the debate, is international travel. This area of activity is relaxed by these regulations too. I will press my noble friend on this. A potential weakness identified previously is represented by travellers coming into the country from high-risk countries, who might pass on the infection before they are quarantined. This presents a challenge principally, though not exclusively, at Heathrow. I am pleased with the red country terminal arrangements at Heathrow. Could my noble friend update the Committee on their success and how they are working? Are we ensuring that special arrangements are made to split passengers from red list countries from other destinations at other airports too, where there is unlikely to be more than one terminal? It would be good to hear that these sensible arrangements are being applied across the country.

What arrangements are being made to ensure co-ordination with the devolved Administrations, particularly in this important area of travel and the operation of our UK airports, where a consistent approach is clearly needed? Could my noble friend comment on the recent summit between the Prime Minister and the First Ministers of the devolved Administrations, and any discussion that there was on co-ordination on coronavirus actions and policy?

Lastly, I make a plea for continued efforts to ensure that COVAX is working successfully to help countries across the world, particularly those unable to act as speedily and effectively as we have done. I know that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has this very much at the centre of his approach and is making it a central plank of the G7 summit coming up in Cornwall. It would be good to hear my noble friend’s thoughts on this. With those comments, I am very pleased to support the regulations.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Steps and Local Authority Enforcement Powers) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, who has made some extremely important points. I thank my noble friend for setting out the purport of these regulations, applaud his work ethic and say that what I shall say, just as the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, said, is no personal reflection on him.

These regulations are part of the road map setting the way out of lockdown, which I support; the approach is correct. I would like some reassurance from my noble friend. As we are out of the eye of the hurricane, it is about time we saw these regulations in advance of them becoming law. We are looking at these some 37 days after they became effective. Frankly, it is just not good enough. It is about time that we started to see these ahead of their becoming law rather than in the rear-view mirror, as has become the case. There may have been a time when that was justifiable, but that time has now passed.

I will take my noble friend up on some of what he said about the Indian variant. I am sure that we will look at this whole issue of why action seemed slow in relation to India when it was not so slow in relation to Pakistan and Bangladesh. It seems strange. Are flights still arriving from India in any way, as I have heard is the case? That might not be true. Could my noble friend also provide some reassurance about our border controls, which seem all too porous? People from countries where there is a known risk mingling with other travellers when they arrive is, frankly, amazing and needs to be stopped forthwith. I cannot understand why that is happening.

My noble friend the Minister spoke about action at the weekend in Bolton, which I certainly welcome. Could he tell us whether similar action has been taken elsewhere, in other communities where there is clearly a threat from this variant, such as Blackburn, Bedford and so on? Could he indicate where that is the case? If he is unable to provide a detailed list—there might be many areas that this applies to—perhaps he could undertake to write and put a copy in the Library.

In short, while the vaccine programme has been highly successful and the Government certainly deserve praise for it, it is not the sum total of what is happening. We have to look at the whole position. The position at our borders is worrying. The Minister himself said that one of the four tests, quite rightly, is whether there are variants of concern. He said that this test was being satisfied. He said later in his speech that new variants are a risk. Frankly, one of those statements has to be right; I suspect it is the latter. I would welcome the Minister taking that point up as well. I have these concerns and look forward to hearing from my noble friend on these points.

Body Mass Index

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, who spoke cogently on this subject, as she always does. I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Addington, on securing this important debate.

The past year has highlighted the importance of health and, specifically, of weight as a determinant of health. Just yesterday, as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, reminded us, the Minister stressed the importance of combating obesity and the historic challenge we have in our country in tackling obesity. Apart from age, it is the single most important factor in tackling Covid-19, for example.

I also welcome the broader message that the Minister has given out on more than one occasion about the importance of preventive healthcare and the accent we should all place on a healthy diet, an exercise regime, such as walking and cycling, and maintaining a healthy weight in so far as one can. I welcome any rebalancing of our approach to health in this way for the future. I think that is important and welcome.

I appreciate, as others do, that BMI is not a perfect guide to a healthy weight—far from it. For example, as we know, muscle is denser than fat, so somebody who has a muscular build will be heavier than somebody who does not, and different people may be susceptible to some diseases and so on. BMI clearly needs to be used alongside other factors—that is crucial.

However, from the perspective of getting the basic message across, there is no doubt in my mind that in tackling obesity the use of BMI is the right call to arms, although I accept we need to be very much alive to the mental challenge of the eating disorders that confront many people. It is undoubtedly the case, as the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, has just said, that pressure from Covid-19 has increased problems in relation to finding treatment for eating disorders. I would welcome the Minister saying something on this when he sums up.

I also look forward to hearing from the Minister about what specific actions Her Majesty’s Government are looking at around whether to nudge people with incentives, or at least opportunities, to exercise across the country; whether to take action to influence diet, for example, through school meals, hospital meals and meals in other institutions; how we are going to control excess sugar and salt in our diets, possibly through restrictions; and how we are going to control the advertising of unhealthy foods and drinks. These are important issues that we need to confront for the future and one of the lessons that we can clearly learn from the Covid pandemic.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (England) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who has characteristically made some important points. I too congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman of Darlington, on an excellent maiden speech. I am sure that the whole House looks forward to many more such speeches from her. I also thank the Minister for his considerable efforts on coronavirus and many other health issues over the last year or so. He has been a truly diligent Minister.

We can all take great comfort from the success of the vaccination programme. It is a tribute to the Government, the NHS and the hundreds of thousands of volunteers who have made such a great effort and continue to do so. That said, these regulations cause concern. I share the concerns of many Members who have spoken about the lack of notice, which we should have been able to deal with by now. We have heard routinely how this will be dealt with but we are still seeing these things in the rear-view mirror. Frankly, I cannot see a reason why that should be happening now, and certainly not in relation to these regulations. I do, and will, support them, but there are inconsistencies in the approach. Those coming directly from a red-list country will quarantine in a hotel; those coming indirectly—no matter how short the stopover somewhere else—will not be required to do so. I cannot see the reason for the distinction but I look forward to hearing from the Minister on this.

Meanwhile, we should take great comfort internationally from the scientific response—including, I hope, to the variants—from those who have worked incredibly hard on the vaccine programme and, as I said, from the vaccine rollout in our own country, which has been extraordinarily successful. I would also like to hear from the Minister on the vaccine passport and, indeed, a vaccine certificate to enable people to attend galleries, concerts, football matches and so on. What are the Government doing about that?

Women’s Health Strategy

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 9th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we are of course drafting the national strategy, and we are collecting evidence on what its priorities should be. Undoubtedly, FGM should be in there; it is the most horrific crime, and it still touches far too many girls’ and women’s lives. I would like to see this country rid of it forever as soon as possible, and I encourage the noble Baroness to submit evidence on that point so that we can move clearly on it.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the Statement rightly identifies the concern of mental health. Given the particular challenges experienced by women in the pandemic, from domestic abuse and disproportionate job losses to increased caring responsibilities, I ask my noble friend to give special focus to this area of research. I also applaud addressing the need for proper representation in the research programme of women from ethnic minorities, including from the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities .

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend touches on two very important points. He is entirely right that mental health has previously been underrepresented in the strategies of our healthcare. I hear loud and clear noble Lords who repeatedly make the case for a greater focus on mental health, and I take that message back to the department as much as I can. I reassure him that mental health will be very much a priority in this area. The two facts—that it is often women who are connected with mental health issues and that it is women who are often overlooked—are probably connected. It is extremely challenging for us to get women from ethnic minorities, for instance those from a Gypsy or Roma background—that is such a good example—fully engaged in our healthcare strategy. If the noble Lord has any suggestions or recommendations for how we can better engage with them, I invite him to submit evidence to the consultation.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers and Self-Isolation) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 1st March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown, who reminds us quite rightly of the important part that faith and faith communities play in tackling this pandemic. I thank my noble friend for outlining the purpose of these regulations and pay tribute to his incredible hard work and good humour throughout this pandemic and in serving our House.

I support these regulations. I believe that the overriding need to contain the spread of the disease means that, where self-isolation is required, it should be properly enforced. I enjoy the honour of serving on the Public Services Select Committee. During our recent inquiry, one very clear fact emerged, which was the frequent need to be more open to sharing data. We saw very clear evidence that bodies which chose to share data were able to rise to the challenges of the pandemic much more readily. So I very much endorse the approach of these regulations in this regard, although, like others, I look forward to the imminent—I hope—memorandum of understanding.

On the stricter control of gatherings of over 15 people, again this seems eminently sensible. Clearly, the larger the gathering, the greater the concern. I suspect that many people would strongly support these regulations and would perhaps even favour a tougher regime. I have a question in this regard for my noble friend. Clearly, the mischief which the regulations seek to address is large unauthorised gatherings. Why then do the regulations restrict themselves to private dwellings, educational establishments or indoor raves? Clearly, they are part of the problem that we need to tackle, but what happens if there is a large gathering on business premises or in a barn, on industrial or charitable premises, or perhaps there is unauthorised use of a public building? It seems that, as drawn, the regulations do not cover these types of activity. It may well be that I have missed something or that some other regulations deal with those situations, but if the problem is large unauthorised gatherings, why are we not tackling all indoor gatherings rather than just some of them? Subject to that caveat and concern, I give strong support to these regulations and once more thank the Minister for all he does for our House.