Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Debate between Lord Bishop of Winchester and Baroness Byford

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Winchester]

My Lords, I support the right reverend Prelate’s amendment. Neither the equal marriage Bill nor this amendment would change the doctrinal position of religious organisations. In fact, the Bill recognises in Clause 1(3) that the doctrine of the Church of England remains that marriage is the union of one man and one woman.

This amendment is about religious educational institutions, as the right reverend Prelate has said, operating within the ethos of their faith and charitable foundations, while giving due regard to the breadth of opinion on the nature of marriage, including equal marriage. It ensures a true diversity while allowing for a particular perspective to be honoured. The Human Rights Act, Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Section 403 of the Education Act 1996 may seem to preserve religious freedom or the exercise of discretion in selecting materials for SRE teaching, but the legal process proving that, if these freedoms are challenged, might be lengthy and very expensive. It is better to amend at this stage and thus resolve the conflict between different legal requirements.

The amendment will protect and promote religious freedom, and thereby enable the ongoing contribution to the common good of the religious traditions and diversities of this country. Marriage makes a great and fundamental contribution to our society. It is better that all views are included and encouraged for all to flourish. There is no homophobic Trojan horse in this amendment; rather, there is a recognition of true diversity of opinion. God willing, we will move beyond homophobic attitudes, and this amendment is one way to do that. It would ensure that true diversity is taught in a faith context and would provide formation for the almost 1 million children for whom the Church of England is responsible in its schools.

[Baroness Byford]

My Lords, I have sat patiently through many of our debates, but I did not speak during the Committee stage. I should like to support the amendment moved by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester. What it seeks from us all, and particularly from the Minister who is to respond, is clarity. In passing this Bill—and I am sure that it will pass—we are actually changing the law. I do not accept some of the contributions which say that there is no need for it because the issue is covered. I do not think it is, and therefore this amendment is extremely important.

I question why so many parents, often from no faith at all, choose to send their children to faith schools. What is it about faith schools that they think their child will benefit from? Many people whom I speak to will say, very sensibly, that while they themselves do not have a particularly strong faith, there is something within the teaching in faith schools that is extremely important. Into that comes marriage and the sorts of things that we talked about earlier.

To me, this amendment is about seeking clarification and whether we can still teach the religious freedoms and teach about marriage based on one man and one woman. I was grateful for the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Alli, earlier, but extremely dismayed when he said that it could be used against us. Against whom? This is an inclusive Bill. It might be something that some of us are struggling to come to terms with, but to use that argument against what is being proposed in this Bill I found deeply concerning.