Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Bishop of Wakefield and Baroness Wilcox
The Lord Bishop of Wakefield
No. It depends on what you mean by “coercion”, which can mean something very unpleasant indeed. It does mean that people will not necessarily change the way that they operate simply because we ask them to be nicer. That is the point. We know that, otherwise we would not have produced the sort of legislation that we are debating today. Even if we do not go down some of the roads that we have been debating, the whole Bill seems imply that the adjudicator must have some powers by which the present situation is changed. How you want to use the word “coercion” is another matter. I would not want it to be overpressed. After all, the worst form of coercion always leads to war and that is not what we are talking about—we are talking about precisely the opposite—but it will need firmness and robustness.
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, the amendments being discussed here are very interesting. However, in considering them it is important to remember the purpose of the financial penalties. The financial penalties in this context, if they are imposed, are supposed to be punitive rather than restitutory or to fund any particular activity.
The amendments of my noble friends Lord Teverson and Lord Razzall raise two difficulties with regard to paying any of the proceeds to a supplier. First and most fundamentally, an investigation does not determine the liability of a retailer with respect to any individual supplier. Given this fact, it would be inappropriate to pay all or part of the fine to the supplier. Any supplier who did wish to reclaim damages from a retailer would be able to do so using the arbitration provision in Clause 2.
The second reason is linked to the climate of fear. One of the key drivers of this Bill is the need to address this problem. One of the principal reasons for investigations, as they are set out in the Bill, is to allow suppliers to complain in confidence to the adjudicator, who can then carry out an independent investigation. If an adjudicator began making payments to individual suppliers, it would become obvious who had complained and open up those suppliers to potential retribution from a retailer.
I turn to the amendments of the noble Lords, Lord Knight of Weymouth and Lord Grantchester. Given that financial penalties are a civil sanction, it would be inappropriate for financial penalties to be paid to a supplier or to a third party which did work that supported the groceries sector. In accordance with the standard principles of managing public money, financial penalties are therefore to be paid to the Consolidated Fund.
Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill
Debate between Lord Bishop of Wakefield and Baroness Wilcox
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)
My Lords, the Government published the draft Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill on 24 May—that is, they have published draft legislation during the first Session, as they set out to do. The objective is to introduce a final Bill in the second Session, although it could be earlier if we have the opportunity. Of course, the timetable for introducing the final Bill will also be subject to the outcome of the pre-legislative scrutiny.
The Lord Bishop of Wakefield
My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for her encouraging reply. One of my main concerns is the speed of implementing this legislation because of further haemorrhaging in our dairy industry, in particular. However, I am also concerned that the adjudicator should have teeth. In relation to the implementation of the Groceries Supply Code of Practice, can the Minister explain why financial penalties will not be available to the adjudicator in the early stages of operation but will be made available only by order of the Secretary of State?
Baroness Wilcox
I know that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield is most anxious to see the groceries code adjudicator established, as the pastoral care of farmers in his diocese is important to him. The Government believe that the most effective way to handle this matter in a highly competitive market is to name and shame retailers who breach the code. However, if experience shows that negative publicity is insufficient, the Secretary of State will have reserve powers to allow the adjudicator to impose financial penalties. I know that the Commission recommended that we should have such financial penalties, but the Government believe that the most effective method of control is to go through the naming and shaming process and to see whether that works before resorting to fining.
Stem Cell Research
Debate between Lord Bishop of Wakefield and Baroness Wilcox(13 years, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, it is a pleasure to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Patel. He is an expert on stem cell research and a member of the council of the Medical Research Council. It is a pleasure and an honour to agree with him.
The Lord Bishop of Wakefield
My Lords, to return to the question of adult stem cells and pluripotent cells, given that adult stem cells are currently used in the successful treatment of more than 70 different illnesses and that induced pluripotent adult stem cells are being used for new treatments, do Her Majesty's Government agree that adult stem cell research ought to be given priority in stem cell research in the current challenging economic environment?
Baroness Wilcox
The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield asks an excellent question. I agree with him. Research excellence continues to be the primary consideration in funding decisions. Research on iPS cells has shown that although they are like embryonic stem cells, they behave very differently. I am only too delighted to agree with his statement.
Post Offices
Debate between Lord Bishop of Wakefield and Baroness Wilcox
Baroness Wilcox
The noble Lord knows this subject very well. I have a long note here on how complicated, expensive and difficult it is to set up one of these licences. We have looked at the idea of a state-backed post bank, but it would be simply unaffordable in the current financial climate.
The Lord Bishop of Wakefield
Will Her Majesty’s Government give assurances that where a post office is threatened with closure, perhaps because it is part of a small shop, pressure will be put on Post Office Ltd to make sure that it works with community groups to find an alternative location, as is suggested by the notion of the big society?
Baroness Wilcox
As the right reverend Prelate will know, a Bill on the privatisation of the Royal Mail will come to the House on 25 January. Postal services will be discussed then, and it would be a good time to bring up the question again.