Rosebank and Jackdaw Oilfields

Debate between Lord Bishop of Manchester and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

First, my Lords, we need to draw a distinction between licensing and consenting. Licensing gives rights to search and bore for petroleum in the UK continental shelf, and those are vested in the Crown. The NSTA is a non-departmental public body, sponsored by my department, that is responsible for maximising the economic recovery of oil from the North Sea. Blocks of the North Sea are allocated to operators in that way. The operators can then explore for oil and gas under the licence. At that point, there is often a five-year gap between licensing and consenting. What we have said is that we will not consent to any new licenses, and we will shortly be consulting on that.

I am sorry, but I am not going to comment more in relation to individual projects such as Rosebank and Jackdaw. I have to be very careful as a Minister in the department in relation to future processes that will be gone through in which we exercise decision-making. I am sorry, but I really cannot go any further than that.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

Perhaps I might make it a bit wider, to avoid putting the Minister in a difficult situation. We have heard that there are a number of projects that have previously been approved to a certain stage and—at the risk of a pun—are in the pipeline. Have the Government made any estimate of the impact that schemes in this sort of pipeline will have on the UK being able to meet its net-zero targets?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, there clearly are a number of projects that have gone through the licensing process but have yet to come through to the end. We are confident that at the end of the road —or the end of the pipeline, as the right reverend Prelate put it—we will have a situation where, because of no new licences, we will have a thriving asset in the North Sea. The production will reduce, as it is doing at the moment. This will fit in with our overall strategy towards net zero. Clearly, this needs sensitive management. I cannot say it is an art rather than a science, but it is difficult to be more precise than that.

I also refer the right reverend Prelate to the work of NESO, which has made some points on the role of unabated gas. It is also worth reflecting that much of the oil and gas coming from the UK continental shelf is exported. This is another feature of this very interesting subject.

Biomass Generation

Debate between Lord Bishop of Manchester and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I cannot say very much more about how we will review post 2031, but I am very happy to talk to my noble friend about her views. I am not unaware of her views about the continuation of the subsidy, as she spoke to me a few months ago.

We probably have to go back to the analysis of NESO and the advice we received on the impact on our electricity system covering the period 2027 to 2031 if support for Drax was withdrawn in 2027. It said that

“having large-scale biomass available in this period could have a significant impact in mitigating potential risks to electricity security of supply and could also support the delivery of clean power by 2030. The analysis showed that without large-scale biomass, security of supply would not be ensured in scenarios with additional supply losses. While alternative options could deliver the same outcomes, these options have greater delivery risks”.

That is clearly one of the factors that would have to be considered in any long-term review, and there will be other factors as well.

Having reached this agreement, I should say to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, that I do not know yet when the statutory instrument will be coming. Work has to be done on that. We also normally have to consult on a draft SI. I think it will probably be some months before we get to debate it, but I understand the importance of that debate.

We have made no decision about the deployment of large scale BECCS. I think I said earlier that we are going to have an independent review, looking at options for greenhouse gas removal, including how large-scale power BECCS and DACCS can assist us. Again, I cannot answer that question, but it is clearly something that we are giving very earnest consideration to at the moment. The noble Baroness speaks with great authority. If she and other noble Lords want to feed in ideas to the department about the long-term review, I would be very happy to take them.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I am very grateful for the direction of travel indicated in the Statement. Perhaps I could just ask a couple of questions.

First, I was struck by the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, yesterday—as the Minister and other Members were—on the subtlety around whether biomass is making a negative or a positive contribution. At the moment it seems that, as long as it comes from the right sort of forest, it is almost always treated as being naturally positive. I wonder whether His Majesty’s Government will consider a more subtle understanding, based on the insights of the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, and others, of what should be counted as helping us towards a net zero and what is actually putting more carbon into the atmosphere.

On carbon capture and storage, I remember vividly going to a lecture for alumni at my old college in Cambridge. I am a mathematician and one of my former lecturers was at the cutting edge of carbon capture and storage technology. He was telling us about the work that he was doing with government and others and said that it was just about five or six years around the corner. I think it was probably about 25 years ago that I went to that lecture. It seems that carbon capture and storage is like cold nuclear fusion; it is always just around the corner but never actually comes. Could the Minister give any assessment of how much we can really take note of carbon capture and storage, or is it just another Cinderella that is never really going to happen?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

It is a very interesting question. If the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, were here, she would say that fusion is just around the corner. We have this STEP programme. We have global leadership here and my officials and people in the industry are very excited about the potential. When I was doing this job 14 or 16 years agreement, people were telling me it would be 20 years away. I emphasise to the right reverend Prelate that there is real optimism that we are seriously going to be able to make advances. It is the same with carbon capture, usage and storage. Again, we have been talking about this for years, but the Government are putting in some serious investment. We know the technology can work and we think it has great potential.

Victims and Prisoners Bill

Debate between Lord Bishop of Manchester and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, as I said at Second Reading, this is a good Bill for victims. It contains many provisions that I strongly support. I hope and believe that we can make it an even better Bill by working across the House, which is the mood tonight, as it was then.

I put my name to Amendment 10 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby. I also support other amendments in this group, including those that my right reverend friend the Bishop of Bristol, who is unable to be in her place today, has signed. Amendments in this group seek to clarify how the Bill properly addresses the needs of children.

Amendment 10 places on the face of the Bill a short but clear definition of “child criminal exploitation”. This would include any child under 18 who is

“encouraged, expected or required to take part in any activity that constitutes a criminal offence”.

This is not widening the definition of a victim, merely giving it clarity. I learned in my teens that if I was on the receiving end of some wrongdoing, I was a child. By contrast, if I was deemed the perpetrator, I suddenly became a youth.

We have also heard too often in your Lordships’ House of the adultification of children. It is an ugly word for an ugly phenomenon, where a child is treated as a grown-up when they are caught up in wrongdoing. Moreover, we know that in the absence of a strong countervailing pressure, this is disproportionately applied to black children. This has been a long-standing concern of many civil society organisations focused on countering the exploitation of children. I hope we can begin to respond to it today.

In my own diocese of Manchester, we are still reeling from the discovery of the extent of grooming gangs exploiting children for sexual crimes, most notably—but I doubt exclusively—in Rochdale. If the children caught up in these crimes had been seen by the authorities primarily as victims, and treated as such, I believe that the gangs would have been brought to justice far sooner.

Getting a clear definition of child criminal exploitation into the Bill will, I hope and pray, not only improve this legislation but set a precedent for how we treat child victims better, both in future legislation and in practice at every stage of the criminal justice system. I hope that the Minister will either accept our words as on the Marshalled List or come back to us on Report with a suitable government amendment to that effect.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I have Amendment 9 in this group. It concerns verbal abuse to children and, in terms of the challenges the Minister set us with the four As, it is concerned with raising awareness.

I share the view of other noble Lords that it is important to get children into the Bill, particularly in relation to this clause. My amendment seeks to make it clear that when it comes to the definition of “harm” in Clause 1(4)(a), it should include a definition that embraces children and includes verbal harm.

My amendment has been inspired by the work of an inspirational, newish charity called Words Matter, which I believe to be the first charity in the world focused solely on verbal harm to children. It aims to eradicate this damaging and underestimated form of abuse, and I pay tribute to its inspirational founder, Jessica Bondy.

We all understand verbal abuse. It can mean negative words, and language that causes harm to children. It can take the form of blaming, insulting, belittling, intimidating, demeaning, disrespecting, scolding, frightening, ridiculing, criticising, name-calling or threatening a child. It does not constitute only shouting. In fact, abuse can be quiet, insidious and subtle in tone, where volume and facial expression play a part. We have probably all personally experienced verbal abuse, certainly in the profession we are in. It can be extraordinarily damaging, particularly to young people.

We know that children’s brains are responsive to relationships as they grow up with words, tones and sounds around them. The noble Lord, Lord Polak, has just talked about the long-lasting impact on people who were sexually abused many years ago, and destructive language can have some of the same impact. If one looks at what comprises child maltreatment—physical, sexual and emotional abuse, and neglect—verbal abuse is a key attribute of many of those aspects. It can also be individually damaging to a child’s development, perhaps as damaging as other currently recognised and forensically established subtypes of maltreatment.

We believe that emotional abuse, including verbal abuse, is on the rise, and is perhaps the most prevalent form of child maltreatment. A systematic review of childhood abuse undertaken by UCL and Wingate University in the US found that verbal abuse does profound damage to a child over their lifetime, affecting their self-esteem, confidence, future potential and ability to function at home, school and the workplace, really affecting life outcomes for them.

The study commissioned by Words Matter found that this kind of abuse is pervasive in society. That study, which it recently undertook, revealed that two in five children aged 11 to 17 experience adults regularly using hurtful and upsetting words to blame, insult or criticise them—that is, around 2 million children in this country.

The real problem here is a lack of awareness, because without awareness you cannot have strategies and policies to try to deal with it or engage in the educational programmes that are needed, particularly to help teachers, parents and other adults who are in a situation to try to change their behaviour. I do not pretend that an amendment tonight would magically deal with this issue, but in the spirit of the Minister’s wind-up on previous groups, I hope that by drawing attention to it he will be able to say something constructive about how we might tackle verbal abuse and protect children in the future.