Sibling Couples

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I am grateful for the noble Lord’s support on this.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, over the years, speakers from these Benches have completely supported the thrust behind the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Lexden. It is not only a matter for the Treasury and tax, but a matter of justice. If another party gets into power, perhaps the inheritance tax thresholds might even come down in due course—who knows? This does not seem a strong argument for denying an obvious need for justice in these cases.

[Lord Bates]

On the point of justice, that was tested, rightly, in the courts. The Burden sisters took their case to the European Court of Human Rights in 2008, and it did not find that there was discrimination against them in contrast to married couples when it came to inheritance tax. That was a clear decision. It is open to anybody else to challenge it through the courts, but our position is clear.

Refugees

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly recognise that bank accounts are a difficulty for refugees. Local authorities were doing a pilot in 19 local authority areas, appointing 35 local authority liaison officers. They are there to give just that type of support, because we recognise that that is an issue.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, is it not the 28 days that people have to make arrangements, when they change from being asylum seekers to being refugees, that is the difficulty? It takes me more than 28 days to open a bank account if I am on good form, and there are lots of other things that they have to think about. Could the period not be extended beyond 28 days? Universal credit often does not kick in for at least 35 days. The 28-day period is just too tight for people in these circumstances.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly recognise the point that the right reverend Prelate makes about 35 days for universal credit, because the move-on period is 28 days but the post-grant appointment service contacts the refugee at the start of the 28 days. The early findings are actually very positive on this new initiative. The majority who attend appointments get benefits before the 28-day period and, actually, on the subject of the 35-day universal credit payment, the advance UC payment as well.

Spring Statement

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, it is a privilege and a challenge to follow such a brilliant speech from someone who knows his way around the subject. If you want to find good things to tax, I always say that you should start with sin: find a new sin and tax it. I rather agree that HS2 is a sin, not for adding capacity, which I am all in favour of, but in doing so in such an unnecessarily expensive way. For me, trains go quite fast enough already and it could have been done far more cheaply without factoring in the speeds in a small country. As I follow the noble Lord’s speech, I think of St Paul, who once began by saying, “I speak as a fool”. I do so too, a little, after that wonderful description of the financial landscape.

Amid the gloom of the general political situation at present, I welcome the Spring Statement and the optimism it contains. I say that in strictly non-political terms. Since I was ordained 40 years ago, I have been careful not to align myself with any political party or indeed to reveal how I have voted in any election in which I have been entitled to vote. My daughters in particular resent that deeply. En passant, that even applies to the EU referendum.

Of course, the Chancellor put the best gloss possible on what he said, but there must be a welcome for the escape from the shadow cast by the banking crisis that took everyone so unawares a dozen years ago. First the Labour Government, then the coalition Government and, more recently, Conservative Governments have wrestled with the aftermath. This has been extraordinarily difficult, but I find it encouraging to see the progress that has been made—although I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, that it has been made at a price. This is also despite Brexit and the gloomy predictions made in advance of the referendum were there to be a vote to leave.

It seems to me just plain common sense that, in terms of current spending, a country must try to live within its means. This applies to individuals and, in my own sphere, to dioceses and parishes. It is good to see that this country is now on a track to do this at the level of our national life, which is no small achievement.

That said, and meant, there are important questions with which I hope the Government will continue to wrestle. There is little doubt that the improvements in government finances have been made at tremendous cost, and in some cases a very difficult cost: police, social care, welfare, defence, schools up to a point—we will all have our own lists. I am pleased that overseas aid is an honourable and important exception.

I would add to the list university student fees. I have always supported a certain level of fees, but £9,250 a year is way out of line with any other European country; indeed, within the United Kingdom, it is out of line with Scotland and Wales. I hope that the forthcoming review will start to balance student fees and costs towards a more sensible level. Of course, much of the debt will never be repaid, but it must be a huge disincentive to those who have acquired a large debt burden as they seek to make their way in life. I speak as one of the older generation who did not face that challenge. When I went to university, all the fees were paid and I was given a maintenance grant. Those were the days.

Bringing in radical reform to the structure of welfare support through the introduction of universal credit in the midst of the austerity programme was always a recipe for great difficulty, and so it has proved. It has always seemed to me that, from the start, the whole exercise needed much greater bridging financing to be introduced effectively, without shining a light on the very unfortunate losers in the process.

No doubt many other areas could be spoken of, with the NHS looming largest. It is good to know that a sustained programme of real increases is planned. The key test will be whether the money is spent efficiently and effectively, given the size of the operation. The absentee from the Statement was social care. Essentially nothing was said about it. As the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, said, it is hanging over us. The noble Lord asked: what are we going to do?

I should also like to add a word about the section of the Statement on housing. I welcome it as far as it goes, particularly as my own diocese will be included in the additional funding from the Housing Infrastructure Fund. I hope that the annual target of 300,000 new homes by 2025 can be met, but my question is whether market-based solutions alone will achieve this. They must have a major part to play, but is there not a case for more direct government action in partnership with local authorities to help address the chronic lack of low-cost and social housing in particular?

After the Second World War, council house construction was typically between 150,000 and 200,000 units a year until the mid-1950s. Indeed, I was brought up and lived for the first 20 years of my life in one of the houses built in the peak year. Given that real assets are created by house construction, is there not a case for more direct government action to complement the market-based solutions? Looking back over the last 20 or 30 years, it seems to me that the market has failed to deliver. How can we be so confident for the future?

House prices are a major issue in many areas of the country. Market forces have driven them to their current level, and presumably it will not suit the major players in the market to see house prices come down. It would hardly be popular in political terms either to have a large number of people losing nominal wealth or slipping into negative equity. In the past, inflation used to enable Governments to manage this because a static cash value could then be complemented by some drop in real value through inflation. That is just not happening in this extraordinary period of stable inflation. As I look at the housing issues, there seems to be something missing in the analysis to join it all up, putting the market-based solutions together with appropriate government initiatives. We will have to see where we go; if the market delivers 300,000 units by the mid-2020s, I shall eat my cassock.

My final example is spending on children’s and young people’s services. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, mentioned the figure of 52% in relation to cuts. The real-terms figure I had was more like 25%. One way or another, huge cuts have been made to support services for young people through the decade of austerity. I welcome the extra £100 million for the police specifically to tackle knife crime, but that is for only one year and addresses the problem in only one dimension. We surely need a much more joined-up, multiagency approach. That will require the restoration of some of the funding cut from budgets for children’s and, especially, youth services. It is not just the symptoms of knife crime but its sources that need to be addressed. The fact that so many boys growing up in our society have no male role models to learn from is a feature of our society in terms of family dynamics and breakdown. The state cannot substitute entirely—it is a job for all of us—but it has a role. The cuts to spending on youth services over the past 10 years have been quite myopic in that regard.

An “end to austerity” is linked in the Statement to higher wages, lower taxes and increases in public spending. The balance here in the future is crucial. After a decade of well-nigh unprecedented cuts in public spending, I hope the forthcoming spending review will focus upon what needs to be done to undergird and build a safe and civilised society. Public money must be spent wisely and effectively, but in our complex and pluralist society I suspect we will need even more government action in the future to address the problems that will inevitably emerge to complement the vitality of a market economy based on individual freedom.

I know at first hand, through my family, the example which the Scandinavian countries have set. Scotland, to where I will shortly retire, is currently putting its own toe in the water of somewhat higher taxes to fund even better public services. We will have to see what the outcomes look like in due course, but the principle of tax-funded excellence in public services seems to me a noble aim. While it is there to a degree in the Statement, I wish it were just a bit more prominent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bates]

Yes, we should thank the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, in his absence, for making that plea, which the business managers were able to accommodate. I also wish to associate myself with my noble friend Lord Wakeham’s generous tribute to my good friend, colleague and mentor on the Front Bench, my noble friend Lord Young. I had not realised they were celebrating 45 years. I associate myself with my noble friend Lord Wakeham’s generous remarks to my noble friend about his service in both Houses.

I shall try to provide some taxonomy of the contributions, which ranged very widely but more or less settled down in the following areas. The first was, unsurprisingly, Brexit. I began repeating the Spring Statement by referring to what the Chancellor said about Brexit: it is dominating thinking not only in this place but in business. The noble Lords, Lord Tunnicliffe, Lord Davies of Stamford, Lord Davies of Oldham and Lord Bilimoria, the noble Viscount, Lord Chandos, my noble friends Lord Gadhia and Lord Northbrook, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, made points about that headwind. The only area of difference between us is that we say that the opposition parties hold it within their gift to dispel that cloud of uncertainty by backing the deal before us, but matters are unfolding. If there is any news to report I hope that a Box note will make its way along to me.

There was—I shall not overegg it—support for and recognition of the progress which has been made, notwithstanding the uncertainty. We enjoyed the noble Lord, Lord Macpherson, describing Treasury civil servants having to deal with disappointment, and I am sure that was enjoyed within my earshot. The reality is that this Statement was able to unfold some positive news about levels of debt, employment and the general fiscal situation. The noble Lords, Lord Macpherson, Lord Wakeham and Lord Northbrook, referred to the positivity. Even the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester—

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

Even?

[Lord Bates]

I am sorry—delete “even” from the record. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester, whose point about housing I will come back to in a minute, referred to it. The noble Lords, Lord Leigh, Lord Gadhia, Lord Bilimoria and Lord Suri, recognised that progress had been made despite the headwinds. It is absolutely right that we recognise that that progress has been made because British business and enterprise up and down the country—and around the world—is making a Herculean effort, creating jobs, wealth and buoyant tax revenues. These revenues are coming into the Exchequer, giving us the opportunity to look at them.

Across most of the contributions, there was a focus on public services and public spending. As I mentioned, the spending review will be in the summer and conclude in time for the Budget for the autumn, which will rely on it. Contributions effectively broke down into four areas. The noble Lords, Lord Macpherson and Lord Hain, and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, referred to social care. The noble Lords, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Bilimoria, referred to policing, and the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, alluded to the tragic knife crime situation in Sheffield. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester, the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, referred to housing. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, addressed local government finance.

Two other areas, which were grouped together, were the challenges of the changing nature of tax revenue and collection. The attraction of statutory land tax, which the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, referred to, is that it is very easy to collect. The changing nature of tax is making collecting tax more challenging. The noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, my noble friend Lord Leigh and the noble Viscount, Lord Chandos, referred to that challenge and ways to address it. Coupled with that is business confidence, which the noble Lords, Lord Gadhia, Lord Suri, Lord Northbrook and Lord Davies, referred to.

I will use the bulk of my time to address the questions raised as a result of those contributions. Several noble Lords asked how the Brexit dividend might be funded. The OBR’s Spring Statement forecast that business investment is weak. The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, referred to that, and we acknowledge that in the near term. However, as uncertainty wanes, it picks up to 2.3% in 2020 and grows stronger at this pace from 2021 onwards. GDP growth is forecast to be 1.2% in 2019 before picking up to 1.4% in 2020 and 1.6% from 2021 onwards.

The noble Lords, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Hain, as well as several others, referred to infrastructure. We have increased the National Productivity Investment Fund to £37 billion to support key infrastructure up and down the country. Public investment is at its highest sustained level in 40 years.

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, referred to Making Tax Digital—indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, focused on that and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, touched on it. Research now shows the high level of awareness among business and tax professionals: eight out of 10 businesses were aware at the end of last year and over 80% of those had already started preparing. Of VAT returns, 98% are already done online.

The disguised remuneration loan charge was raised quite extensively, by my noble friend Lord Northbrook; by the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth; and by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, with her work on the all-party parliamentary group. Disguised remuneration schemes are and always were contrived tax avoidance. It is not normal or reasonable to be paid loans that are not repaid in practice; my noble friend Lord Wakeham was right in his sage advice on that, as in so much other advice he has given over the years. It is the individual’s responsibility to ensure the accuracy of his or her tax return. HMRC is pursuing the promoters of disguised remuneration schemes and has been investigating over 100 promoters. In the last year, HMRC has taken litigation action against 10 scheme promoters.

I turn to universal credit and welfare, which the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester referred to and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley—

Refugees (Family Reunion) Bill [HL]

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 11th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, I rise in support of my noble friend Lady Hamwee and against the amendment by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford. I have two things to say, the first of which is about pull factors. I hope, as other noble Lords have said, that we will not hear much more about them. I want to add a little bit more evidence and maybe give some succour to the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, with what I am about to say. The EU’s family reunion directive, passed in 1999, has been signed up to by all member states apart from Britain, Denmark and Ireland. Ireland in fact went ahead and put the measures into primary legislation domestically, and it is now only Britain and Denmark that remain outside that directive. The evidence is that, over the last 10 years, those countries that have signed it have not seen a spike in family reunion applicants. I hope that will put the noble Lord’s concerns to rest a little.

I want to say a bit about the benefits of migration because, too often, we have these debates and we all defend migration, but we should talk a little about what migrants do for us. I will use the word “migrants”, because that was the term used in the speech by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford. Researchers who study human migration say that countries fear that letting in some refugees will encourage more and that migrants will be an economic burden. Yet the evidence shows that both beliefs are false. Even without a worker shortage, migrants need not be a burden. On 4 September 2015, the World Bank, the UN International Labour Organization and the OECD club of rich countries issued a report concluding that,

“in most countries, migrants pay more in taxes and social contributions than they receive”.

In a study in 2014, researchers at University College London found that both European and non-European immigrants to the UK more than paid their way. Non-Europeans living in the UK since 1995 brought £35 billion worth of education with them. Those who arrived between 2000 and 2011 were less likely than native British people to be on state benefits, no more likely to live in social housing and contributed a net £5 billion in taxes during that period.

So the question is, why do doors stay shut? The reasons, say the researchers, are not economic, but fear of the cultural impact of foreigners. But all the evidence shows that, with a positive attitude in communities and good leadership, the host community and migrants both benefit. I will just end by saying that there are articles in Psychology Today that show the psychological benefits to the host communities of having a welcoming attitude to migrants. I also cite the example of a small, remote island in Finland, called Nagu, which welcomed refugees. The residents there are very grateful to the refugees for enriching their lives.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, I am in general agreement with those who have spoken against the amendment by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, which is, I think, draconian in the way it is framed. I would like some comment, however, on the scope of Clause 1(2), where nephews and nieces and so on are included. The number that could be involved is really quite large and may make this Bill’s passage more difficult if it is expressed in that large way. The Secretary of State is required to grant an application other than on grounds of national security. I just suggest that the best is sometimes the enemy of the good, and there is just a danger that, with the Bill as framed, you could have 20 or so family members making an application. In the realpolitik of our society, that is just unlikely to get through. On the other hand, I think that the principle of hospitality and welcome needs strongly to be affirmed. The rather narrow amendment here is resisted, but I do have some hesitations about the breadth of the Bill itself.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I rise to make clear that I do not support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford. Though I like and respect the noble Lord very much, I cannot support him in his amendment today. I very much support the contribution from the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, who set out very carefully and clearly why the amendment should be resisted, as did all other noble Lords who have spoken, including my noble friends Lady Lister of Burtersett and Lord Dubs.

I would understand the speech by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, a bit more if this Bill were saying that any refugee granted status to stay in this country could bring family members to the UK, but it does not say that at all. It says that they may make an application. I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, will assure the House that when somebody makes an application to the Home Office, there are some very robust procedures in place. It is not a free for all. I am sure that she will tell the House that, as she will be very well aware of what you have to go through to get an application to enter this country. We discuss matters about the House Office almost every week in this House, and sometimes many times a day. We do not normally say that it is a free for all at the Home Office and that it is far too lenient; we often say quite the contrary about how it operates and can sometimes be very frustrated about the environment at the Home Office, which we think can sometimes be a bit harsh in how it deals with people. I am sure that the Minister will mention more on that.

I also very much agree with the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, who talked about migrants. I am very well aware that the Minister is a migrant herself; she came from Ireland as a child. I am the eldest son of a migrant; my parents also came from Ireland to find work here. I am sure that we would find that many others here are the children or grandchildren of migrants. Migrants have made a very great contribution to our country. They have done wonderful things here and made our country a much better place. I therefore do not support the amendment today, and I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw it in due course.

Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2018 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, I echo the thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, for initiating the debate, and to the whole process that led to the Act being enacted, which is a good example of legislation that makes a difference. I suspect that we will all be singing from the same song sheet this afternoon to some degree. Orchestras can, of course, have two people playing the same instrument, so I shall be second fiddle in my own heart to the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Chartres, who had a big involvement in this when he was Bishop of London.

This is good legislation. It provided for a review within five years, but the review started rather earlier, after about three years. I question whether that was entirely wise. In some senses, the Act arrived at the right time. Metal prices were falling, but I am told that they are now 65% above their low point, so obviously the crime has become more attractive. Also, the Act had an initial impact on the police and local authorities, who know that they will have to do something about it because it has just happened. One of the key things is keeping up the sense of momentum and pressure.

Of course, crime and criminals mutate and evolve. We have heard a little about how there might be fewer offences, but it would be good to have some facts on the size of the crime. Indeed, things seem to be moving around the country. The Cathedral and Church Buildings Division tells me that there is more of an organised character to it, particularly in the south-east, and in Leicestershire and Northamptonshire. There is a bit less in my part of the world, although I share with the noble Lord, Lord Cope, the view that what happened in Bunbury was dreadful. It was not just a plaque that went. It was probably put there when there was a service of dedication. That bit of metal has a meaning. It is almost irreplaceable, even if you get a physical replacement.

One of the things we need more information on is what happens to the lead that is stolen. How is it getting to wherever it goes to? There is very little in the review about that. Is it going abroad? Is there some way around the SmartWater technique? It would be good to have more information on that in particular. We also need to recognise that police resources are under ever greater pressure. Particularly with the fall in the number of recorded crimes, this crime could easily slip down the order of priority for police forces. Renewed attention is needed to the whole process of enforcement and a further review at some point. To think that we have now reviewed and that is it would surely be wrong. There must be some ongoing process of review because, as I said, the underlying crime will mutate and evolve.

This crime is deeply anti-social. While I can speak especially from the point of view of lead from church roofs, there is also the impact on rail. I have come across this in the north-west, where I live. If it happens outside one of the main London stations it causes absolute havoc. One wonders what the cost of making good is in relation to the value of what is stolen. It makes the whole crime even more senseless.

Our churches are typically maintained by a small band of very dedicated volunteers. On Sunday, I celebrated the 50th anniversary—he was eventually retiring—of a churchwarden. He had worked as a churchwarden for 50 years, since I was still at school, which is the longest I have known. His wife said that whenever someone phoned the house she would always say, “He’s down at the church”. The churches are maintained by volunteers like him, and to find water coming through the roof because somebody has pinched relatively small amounts of lead flashing or whatever is utterly dispiriting. So not only is there a monetary cost, there is a social and personal cost that goes with everything. When the Minister replies, will she say whether sentencing takes into account some assessment of the aggravation in relation to heritage assets, or whatever? Half our listed buildings are churches, so it has a disproportionate impact. I do not want to make special pleading for the Church in this regard, but something about the impact of this particular type of theft should be taken into account in the judicial process.

At the same time, the efficient recycling of scrap metal is a very important part of our national life, and we should acknowledge that. I have recently built a house for retirement, and twice I went to the scrap merchant with bits of scrap lead that I had carefully assembled—and, indeed, disposed of other things. Let us acknowledge that there is an important process of recycling scrap metal, but we must not be at all complacent because there is more to do in enforcement. I hope very much that the Government recognise, too, that this review should not be the first and last but the first of a series.

Women: Contribution to Economic Life

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, the noble Baroness could well have said, “Bishops’ Benches: 26 men, no women”, but I am glad that she did not, although I am sure that others will.

I rise with an appropriate hesitancy as the first male speaker in a debate in which only 22% of the speakers will be men. The majority of those listening are also women, which is a pity. However, I look forward to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Palumbo, whom I can only describe as a fellow Daniel in the lion’s den on this occasion. Indeed, those who inhabit these Benches might be seen as somewhat handicapped in advocating the fuller involvement of women in the wider life of our society. As we are regularly reminded, ours are the only Benches from which women are currently excluded. I hope that I can say something today about that and about the wider significance of the struggles of the church over the full involvement of women in its life. I want to speak specifically about the Church of England only because that is, obviously, the organisation that I know best.

Perhaps I may give the House an update on the gender-specific character of the Bishops’ Benches. The question for the Church of England in recent decades has not really been, “Should women be able to be bishops?”. That was settled quite a long time ago. The delay has been due to the questions over whether and how to accommodate those who do not wish to recognise and receive the sacramental and spiritual ministry of female bishops. Some Members of your Lordships’ House will perhaps think that such views simply should not be accommodated at all, and I can understand that feeling. However, the reasons why the church has wrestled with the question of how to accommodate those who do not wish to accept the ministry of women bishops is twofold. The first is, quite simply, that we are a national church—a comprehensive church—in our self-understanding, and that leads to a deep instinct to keep on board as wide a range of people as possible. Deciding how that is done and how the limits are set is quite tricky for a national church. Secondly, the great majority of Christians alive today belong to churches where women are not ordained: the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox churches and many of the more conservative Protestant churches. Therefore, looked at internationally, what is very much a minority opposition to ordained women and women bishops in the Church of England is actually a majority position in world Christianity.

Those are the reasons why our discussions and processes have been rather drawn out, but there is now an agreed way forward and we are confident that final proposals will be before the Ecclesiastical Committee later this summer, with, we hope, final parliamentary approval before the end of the year. The first women bishops should be appointed during next year, perhaps early next year. They will subsequently appear on these Benches, perhaps by some fast-tracking mechanism if that can be agreed through the parliamentary process.

I began by setting this out partly to provide the House with up-to-date information on this matter and partly because the catalyst to the rapid progress which we are now seeing in the church has a wider relevance to today’s debate. Until 2012, the Church of England had tried, for the first of the reasons I gave earlier, to accommodate opposition to the ordination of women by framing proposals which restricted the authority of women bishops in their dioceses on the face of the church’s legislation. This rightly elicited the criticism that in some sense the resultant women bishops would have a second-class character about them, with an authority which was restricted as compared with their male counterparts. For some, that was an acceptable compromise as a way to get the legislation through. However, it failed in its purpose because a small but significant group of synod members who favoured opening the episcopate to women felt that the proposal lacked a certain inner integrity. I was among those and for that purpose I abstained in the vote in November 2012, when the legislation narrowly failed to achieve the necessary majorities.

In the subsequent discussion, an honest assessment of what we were doing and where we are has produced the right conclusion in my view that the only way forward was a simpler proposal which opened the episcopate to women, essentially without any qualification. Such provision as may be made then for those who are not prepared to receive the ministry of a woman bishop would be made pastorally by the woman bishop herself under her proper authority, with guidelines from the House of Bishops to try to achieve a certain consistency across the Church of England. My point is that it was when it was realised that there could be no reservation or disguised discrimination attached to women bishops that the log-jam suddenly cleared and the way forward appeared. The woman bishop will have in her diocese exactly the same authority and jurisdiction as her male colleagues. Really, we should have seen that much earlier, as I am sure many Members of your Lordships’ House will think. I think that that is why the process has ended up being rather drawn out.

I suggest that in other areas of our national life, our economy, to define that word in its broadest context, will have seen parallel struggles for women to be accepted in their own right, with their own particular gifts and talents, rather than simply being expected to conform to the established ways and practices as laid down by decades or perhaps centuries of male dominance. The noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, referred to that in relation to the other place. I am sure that other noble Lords will refer to that themselves. Speaking personally, I have two daughters who are both making their ways successfully through two of our leading professions, but there has always been the subtext that, “As long as you conform to a man’s world, we will give you every opportunity”. There is still quite a lot to be done sensitively to adapt our national life and professional life to the talented women whose gifts we so much need. Our experience in the church suggests that these issues ultimately need to be addressed head on, without too much compromise and the resultant disguised discrimination.

Let me conclude with some remarks about the wider contribution of women to the economy of the church; that is, the “household” of the church—the word “economy” in its original derivation means “household”. I would not want my earlier remarks about women bishops to be detached from the wider contribution that women make to the life of the church. Much of that is done on a voluntary basis and there is nothing wrong with that. Armies of people care for the parish churches of this land, which comprise nearly half our grade 1 listed buildings. There is all the cleaning and adornment of those buildings, and the wonderful skills of flower arrangers, which so often are neglected but actually adorn our churches. I always remark on that each Sunday as I go around my diocese—although not while we are in Lent, but I shall look forward to doing that at Easter.

Alongside that there is the wide range of pastoral work with women to the fore, including the gathering and distribution of food through food banks, which are now such an important, if ambiguous, feature of our society, and in which local churches and Christians are usually involved. I want to pay a deep tribute to all that work. Then there are the growing numbers of women priests, the first of whom were ordained just 20 years ago. We will have a splendid celebration this summer. Dare I say that I am contemplating ordering crates of pink champagne to distribute in my diocese? Today, about a third of all licensed clergy in the Church of England are women—a figure that looks likely to rise steadily to a half on current patterns of ordination. The number who are in charge of parishes, incumbents, is the figure given by the noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, which is about 22% but rising steadily. I should add that more than half our licensed readers who assist the ordained ministry, preach and lead services are women.

As we prepare for the consecration of women as bishops, perhaps the greatest challenge is to accept that through the progressive process of opening up the ministry of the Church to women, there has been, there is and there will be a progressive and deep transformation of the church and its ministry—the institution of the church in all its aspects. There is an awareness of these issues and careful work is being done in advance of the first consecration to the episcopate to try to avoid inadvertent pressure for these women simply to conform to established male stereotypes. We must acknowledge that the pressure will subtly be there in all sorts of ways. “God forbid!”, your Lordships may say. Women have transformed the economy of the church in all its aspects and I am confident that in the years to come they will continue to do so.

International Development: Budget

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Tuesday 11th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, I join those thanking the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for introducing this debate. It is very timely and perhaps gives us an opportunity for some clearing of the air after the Prime Minister’s recent comments and the reactions, or overreactions, in some cases, to them.

Let me emphasise from these Benches our complete support for the Government’s overall allocation to the aid budget. I believe that history will give a very favourable judgment on this country’s decision to maintain its increasing level of commitment at such a challenging economic time. Our world seems ever increasingly to be characterised by growing divides between wealth and poverty, whether between individuals in a given country or between countries themselves. I sometimes think that there are not many issues on which the Lords spiritual are in total agreement, but this is definitely one of them. At least, I believe that to be the case, but my right reverend friend the Bishop of Derby has yet to speak.

Aid should be directed to alleviate poverty, but that poses the question: what is poverty in our world today? When thinking about poverty we should, of course, take its obvious meaning which tends to come first to us: it is a lack of money and material resources. But poverty is not just a lack of material resources; it can also be poor health, which can be psychological as well as spiritual. Poverty can be not living in a democracy in which individuals are valued. Much poverty in its broader sense is caused by wars or other social upheavals, just as the greatest single source of poverty in this country is arguably family breakdown. The best way to address poverty in our country might well be to have a co-ordinated, cross-departmental strategy to reduce family breakdown, in as much as the Government can influence such major social trends.

The same applies to development aid overseas. Above all, it needs a joined-up, cross-departmental strategy, and in as much as this is what the Prime Minister was advocating in his recent remarks, I have no problem with them. I also have no fundamental objection to our aid programmes being integrated somewhat with our broader national interests or security strategy. There has been a tendency in the past for the development programme to be almost on its own plane, apart from other aspects of government policy. But it is distinct, as has been rightly said by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. It always seems to me to be part of the overall programme of what we are trying to do as a country. Surely we are learning the hard way, as has been mentioned, that soft power in all its guises is often more lastingly effective than hard power. Indeed, there seem to be many conflicts which have no purely military solution, as indeed is the case, it appears, in Syria.

In relation to the Ministry of Defence, for example, I can see a strong case for offering assistance with mine clearance, or rehabilitating former soldiers into society after a conflict ends. We heard something about that in the previous debate about the Offender Rehabilitation Bill: there is a particular problem with ex-servicemen who find life difficult some years later. No doubt a whole range of activities, which might be regarded as aspects of peacekeeping and peacemaking, should involve the Ministry of Defence along with other departments. I see no reason why that should not be the case. That should involve not only other departments of government, but voluntary agencies—let us remember those too, including faith communities.

In Africa, in particular, there is a major problem of preventing aid money being swept up into a culture of corruption. Often the safest way to distribute money in those countries is through the faith communities. My most reverend friend the Archbishop of Canterbury cannot be here today, but this is a particular concern of his, as he has had a major interaction with Africa over the years, and indeed looking at his blog, as I do every night before I go to bed, there is an instance of the Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church in Sudan using money from the overseas development budget— £3 million or £4 million —to train thousands of teachers in a country where only about 1% of the young women complete secondary education. Again, that is a really important example of collaboration outside the immediate structures of government, but that should be built on collaboration within government.

I believe that this country has a proud record on overseas development. I simply want the Minister to reassure me that that will long remain the case.

Prisons: Mothers and Infants

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the Government are fully committed to reducing the number of women in custody, and that is already happening. Recent sentencing changes should help that further. If a woman or a man is a sole or primary carer, that should be considered as a mitigating factor in sentencing. Recent guidelines from the Sentencing Guidelines Council have reiterated this. There are seven small mother and baby units, the largest having 13 spaces, which support the development of mother and baby relationships. In deciding whether a mother and baby should be referred to one of these units, the interest of the child is paramount.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, bishops see the inside of prisons rather more than most Members of your Lordships’ House do. There is no more depressing aspect of a visit than to go to one of these mother and baby units. Can the Minister tell the House what proportion of these mothers are there for drug-related offences, when they are often not the prime movers in the trafficking?

[Baroness Northover]

The right reverend Prelate is right that prisons of any description can be very depressing places, as is seeing the situation of people within them. However, I have visited the mother and baby unit within Holloway prison. If mothers are sentenced to prison, they need to be extremely well supported, and I thought that the support being given in that mother and baby unit was very good. Within the prison, too, the support in terms of mental health, tackling drug addiction and other problems was being approached. It is extremely important that we do what we can to try to keep women out of custody. The legal changes made in the last Bill help to move us in that direction and that is one of our aims, because the right reverend Prelate is right that many people in this situation are themselves very vulnerable.

International Aid Reviews: Conclusions

Lord Bishop of Chester Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Lord maybe missed the part of the speech that said that the Secretary of State has committed to supporting regional programmes. As he absolutely rightly points out, some of the smaller countries will have greater responses from their regional areas than from bilateral programmes, which are smaller and less able to reach widely. We support the regional programmes very much.

I come back to the point about Burundi and Lesotho, which I keep pronouncing wrongly. We believe that they have comparative partners that are far better placed than us to deliver aid. Therefore, we will help them through the regional programmes.

In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, I should say that our regional integration work, which is managed by TradeMark East Africa, which has an established office in Bujumbura, will provide support for Angola and Burundi, so that is covered well. We will not just leave them out there and we are not suddenly going to stop—the process will phase down by 2016.

The noble Lord is absolutely right that we have a keen focus on agriculture, which is really important for food security, not only for that area but for us, too. We have pledged from 2009, when the Opposition were in government, £1.1 billion over three years. We are therefore taking agriculture sustainability very seriously. We are committed to food security and agriculture and are working with the FAO as well as other multilaterals, including the International Fund for Agricultural Development and the World Food Programme, to ensure that we have a strong programme in place.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, I press the Minister on an aspect of the Statement that has not featured in the questions so far—the point that,

“it is critical that the UK increases its focus on helping countries to build open and responsive political systems”.

In the conclusions there is simply a reference to holding “freer and fairer elections”, but building democracies is about more than just helping countries to hold elections; it is about helping to build institutions in a society that support democracy. Could the Minister say a bit more about that?

[Baroness Verma]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for that question. Of course this is about more than just fairer elections; it is about making sure that the institutions in countries where there has been corruption and where unstable Governments have held office are removed or strengthened. Therefore, DfID, through its programmes of technical support and assistance, can ensure that we help Governments who want our help to train people in place to be able to hold Governments and funded institutions to account. We will not tolerate corruption; we want corruption to be eradicated. Therefore, we take all allegations of corruption and of misappropriation of funds very seriously, and we will work very strongly with Governments to ensure, with their assistance, that we put in place stronger good governance in the political systems. However, this is not about freer and fairer elections—I understand that; it is about giving people at grass-roots level the ability to hold the politicians representing them to account.

We have also put into place a watchdog that will monitor all our aid—where it is spent, how it is spent and what the outcomes and results are—so that people across the world can just log on and see for themselves. If that aid is not reaching them, they have a place to come back to and ask for recourse.