Health and Care Bill

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lords Hansard _ Part 1 & Report stage
Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I support what has already been said and the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. I also declare an interest in that I was a member of the commission she so ably chaired.

I have been on this, along with others, for a decade. Back in 2011 we had The Government’s Alcohol Strategy, which was very good but regrettably fell by the wayside. I was heartened back in 2019 when the Government, while they are prepared to give details about sugar and calorific effects on almost anything we eat or drink apart from alcohol, were given cause to think about consulting on extending it to alcohol too.

We had a short debate last autumn with the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, who was then the Minister responsible, on calorie and labelling regulations. I was persuaded not to divide the House on the basis of promises given of change coming. The Minister said:

“I give the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and all those who have expressed concern about the issue this commitment: the Government will be consulting shortly on whether calorie information should be mandated on prepacked alcohol and alcohol served in pubs and restaurants. Covid-19 makes it more important than ever to support the nation to achieve a healthier weight, and the Government are taking action to help people to lead healthier lives.”—[Official Report, 22/7/21; col. 456.]


It is now 2022 and we still have not got the consultation, so the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, has posed a fairly simple question.

I think in their heart of hearts the Government know they have to do something on this; it is quite ludicrous that alcohol is out of step with almost all other drinks and food. It is time we brought it into line. Can the Minister please tell us when we are going move on this issue? When are we going to have some definite dates and when will the consultation be concluded?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I too support the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. I declare my interest as my wife is a director of Diageo. There is no doubt that mandatory calorie labelling of alcohol is one of the most basic steps we need to take to make this country healthier. We have a moral obligation to give people the information they need to make an informed choice. We must take reasonable steps to prevent illness so that we can keep our spiralling health costs down. We must address the health inequalities the Minister has spoken about so thoughtfully on previous occasions. We should do all we can to nudge drinks companies to bring down the calorie levels of some drinks.

As the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said, these measures have been promised for years. They were made in Tackling obesity: empowering adults and children to live healthier lives, published in July 2020. In October 2020, the then Minister responded to a Written Question, saying:

“we are committed to consult before the end of the year on our intention to make companies provide calorie labelling on all pre-packaged alcohol they sell. The consultation will also cover introducing calorie labelling on alcoholic drinks sold in the out of home sector, for example bought on draught or by the glass.”

The then Minister wrote on June 21 2021:

“We are committed to consult shortly on our intention to make companies provide calorie labelling on all pre-packaged alcohol they sell. The consultation will include further details about the proposed timescale for implementation of the policy.”


In the debate on calorie labelling regulation on 22 July 2021, when alcohol labelling was left off at the last minute by the then Minster, he said—well, the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said what the Minister said and I will not repeat it, but it was pretty emphatic.

As the Minister who said and wrote all those words, I ask the current Minister to make the very specific time commitment the amendment seeks.

Flu Vaccination and Blood Test Cancellations

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Tuesday 14th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I reassure the noble Lord that we have strained every sinew to deliver the most impactful flu vaccination programme in the history of the country. We have expanded the range of the flu vaccination and the number of vaccinations available. The NHS depends on us keeping people out of beds. That is why we are highly focused on this.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

Will the Minister answer the question asked by my noble friend Lady Thornton about the BMA’s feeling sufficiently concerned that it suggested a meeting of COBRA? COBRA could have discussions with the Armed Forces and perhaps we could use some of their drivers. There are answers to some of these problems.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

This is not a driver problem; it is a delivery problem.

NHS Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am also enormously grateful for the contribution of NHS staff at all levels and from all parts of the United Kingdom. This pay settlement is based on the recommendations of the pay review body. We said that that was the mechanism we would follow, and we are following it; in that respect, we are doing what we said we would. I reassure the House that recruitment to the NHS is extremely strong. We are hitting our targets on the recruitment of 50,000 nurses and our targets for GP trainees and in other parts of the NHS.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s offer to meet the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, to discuss her devastating report. We should be ashamed to see the way some of our people with learning disabilities and our autistic young people have been treated. I would like to know whether the Government’s action plan can give some realistic dates on when there is likely to be proper service and support given within local communities and within homes that should be created for them.

Secondly, on Covid generally, I have been double-jabbed with Pfizer, so it is unlikely that I will go into hospital, but I have Covid. I would like to pick up on the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton—what are the figures for the number of people who have had their vaccinations but are now starting to suffer from Covid? This is not flu; it is quite different from flu. You get the jab for the flu and you stay clear of it. With this, you get the jabs but you can get it just the same—and I have been suffering. Why are the Government giving mixed messages that people are now going back to normal? This is just not the case. We are sending out mixed messages and giving the impression that we have this “freedom day”. Yes, there will be freedom, but there will be freedom to spread on a scale that we have not experienced latterly. So I hope the Government will be cautious with the mixed messages they have been issuing and they will underline that having the double jab does not necessarily mean that people are clear of catching the disease.

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

The noble Lord has my profound commiserations. It is an extremely tough and nasty disease, as he rightly points out. Even for those who have had two jabs, if they get the disease it can still be a really horrible experience, which he has at this moment.

He is not quite right, though, on the mixed messages. We have been crystal clear from the very beginning, even before the first vaccine arrived, that the vaccination was not going to be a panacea in itself. It will not prevent all people from getting all Covid diseases for all time, immediately. These things are incremental. The societal impact of the vaccine is to drive down the infection rate to the point that R is below one; that is the objective. But, in the meantime, those who have had the vaccine not only remain infectious but can be heavily symptomatic, and I am very sorry for the position he is in. Incidentally, that is also true of the flu vaccine; it is not a 100% vaccine, but it does an enormous amount to break the chain of transmission and to reduce the spread of flu on exactly the same basis.

Office for Health Promotion

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Thursday 29th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Royal College of Nursing and the noble Baroness for that extremely constructive and thoughtful suggestion. That is exactly the kind of cross-government, inter- departmental suggestion that the OHP will focus on. I will be glad to take that to the OHP and make it clearly.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) [V]]

Does the Minister agree that, whichever office is in charge of it, any successful obesity strategy must engage with the so-called hard-to-reach groups in society? As many play the National Lottery, scratch cards and so on, will the Government consider how this link might be used to incentivise and reward players for moves to better and healthier eating, drinking and exercising? As the National Lottery franchise will soon come up for renewal, will the Government consider changing its remit so that it is more focused on health than at the moment, or even consider taking a stake and creating a public/private partnership with a focus on not just cash prizes but better health rewards for the nation?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, Covid has been an extremely important educational experience; we have backed off from using the idea of “hard to reach”. Instead, we try to be much more effective at making ourselves approachable for the kinds of people the noble Lord talks about. He is entirely right that the levelling-up agenda means nothing if it does not mean levelling up health outcomes; we are very focused on addressing the kind of health inequalities he refers to. That will be a central mission of the whole project.

Future of Health and Care

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Tuesday 23rd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I start by paying an enormous tribute to the 11,251 community pharmacies for the work they do day in, day out, and in particular their contribution to the vaccine rollout. I remind my noble friend that £370 million has been made available by the Government in increased advance payments to support community pharmacies with cash-flow pressures caused by the pandemic. The community pharmacy contractual framework—the five-year deal—commits £2.5 billion annually to the sector. Non-monetary support has also been provided in recent months, such as the removal of some administrative tasks, flexibility in opening hours, support through the pharmacy quality scheme, and the delayed introduction of new services. I am afraid I do not quite recognise the figures my noble friend cited on the closure of pharmacies, but if he would like to write to me, I would be very glad to look into them more closely.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the White Paper refers to the NHS problems with obesity. I make no apology for introducing this topic, because obesity is one of the major underlying causes of Covid deaths, but it is rarely raised in the direct communication between the Prime Minister and Professor Whitty and the population in the No. 10 conferences. As World Obesity Day approaches on 4 March, will the Minister speak to the Prime Minister or Professor Whitty and see if we could have this fundamental topic raised as an indicator that this is where cost savings can be achieved and we can get better health, if we work on it?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord is entirely right: obesity is not only a major issue, it is specifically cited in the Bill, where we have clear measures to try to address it. I do not need to raise it with the Prime Minister or the CMO because they both take it incredibly seriously. The Prime Minister has spoken movingly about his own challenge when he caught Covid—the five stone by which he feels he was overweight, the impact that had on his life chances, and how close to death he came because of obesity when he went into hospital. That was a metaphor for the whole country, and that is why we have launched a major obesity strategy in respect of marketing and advertising. It is why we remain committed to the obesity strategy, and more measures will be rolled out during the course of the year. I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord for reminding me about World Obesity Day on 4 March, which we will be marking very seriously with a publicity campaign.

Obesity

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Tuesday 5th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

Could we have short supplementaries, please? I call the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the all-party parliamentary group involved with the report. We recommended that the Government should build on their Better Health campaign with a public information campaign. Picking up on the last point of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, and on the Minister’s remark that he had tweeted about the 13 streams, is not the basic problem that the public are not aware that we are trying to run a campaign and that we need a clear relaunch? This is the opportune moment to do it, when we have such problems with Covid.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord rightly alluded to the Better Health campaign, and I remind him that we did relaunch it yesterday. That went extremely well and got a lot of coverage. But there is only so much that government advertising can do; I do not think that we can advertise our way out of this problem. It is up to individuals to make their own decisions, it is up to GPs to give the support that people need and it is up to us as a society to accept that the health of the nation is important to its resilience and to its long-term health. Until those decisions are made, we struggle to make progress in this area.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Monday 30th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to remind the noble Lord that earlier today we published a fulsome programme of community testing. I would be very glad to send him a copy of it, because it lays out exactly the plan he has just described; I am hopeful that he will celebrate its publication. He is entirely right that infection rates have come down in Liverpool—not just because of mass testing but it has made a contribution—and I pay tribute to the mayor and people of Liverpool for their approach in recent months.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that when a country faces a common external threat—to use his phrase, an “enemy”—the best chance of success comes when it is united? If he does, and we are once again seeing splintering and divisions arising quickly after this further Covid Statement, will he speak to his colleague the Prime Minister and seek to persuade him to invite other political parties to get involved in a united approach; to invite Sir Keir Starmer, the leaders of the devolved Parliaments and the leaders of the other political parties so that we can move towards a co-ordinated and co-operative effort while this problem continues to blight the country? As he has demonstrated with Liverpool, there is a very strong case for people working closer together—not permanently, but temporarily—than they have done hitherto. This is required at a national and political level as well.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I share completely the noble Lord’s ambition for collaboration and a sense of national unity. I am grateful to the devolved Assemblies and the leaders of the nations for their collaborative approach, and to the leader of the Opposition for his support on a large number of matters. However, right now we need clear, simple, strong government, which is best supplied by the voted-in majority.

Covid-19: Obese and Overweight People

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend is recognised for her hard work in this area, and we all admire her championing of healthy living. The CMO’s advice is to focus on weight; that is the best way that you can prepare for winter, for the second spike, to defend yourself against Covid.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the very firm statement from the Minister and I welcome, too, the Prime Minister’s public statement about him accepting personal responsibility for his size. Can the Government, in taking this renewed, stronger position, recognise that the public need to have all the facts that they can about what they are eating and drinking? In many areas, they are left in the dark and therefore cannot make the right choices. On alcohol, for example, drinking has shot up during lockdown, yet people do not know how much sugar there is in alcohol; there is no proper labelling, including on calories. Can the Minister commit to ensuring that, in the review being undertaken, the public will know what choices they have to make and will know the facts about what they are eating and drinking?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord makes a good case. Chapter 2 of the obesity recommendations makes it very plain that clear labelling and data play a critical and pivotal role in helping people to make choices, but so do interventions on the actual content on the food. We will look at both of those for future options.

Dementia: Accident and Emergency

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Wednesday 11th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is quite right that this issue is not limited to England. The devolved Administrations are very much focused on it. I will look into the relevance and possibility of the kind of meeting she describes.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister say what today’s announcement of a freeze on alcohol duties—a continuation of the policy that the Government have pursued since 2012—will do to aid Alzheimer’s? Will it increase it or lessen it? What research is now being done to indicate that there is a clear link?

[Lord Bethell]

This Government are committed to science-based policy. There is undoubtedly a link between personal behaviours and outcomes later in life. Public policy should be aligned to create the best possible outcomes for all people in Britain. The noble Lord’s points are well made and we will follow them up.

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

Public Health England is leading the search and British scientists are playing an incredibly important role. However, the guidance I would give the House is from the CMO: the heaviest impact of this epidemic is likely to be within weeks, whereas the search for a vaccine is likely to take at least months and possibly years.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is to be congratulated on the way he is answering questions in difficult circumstances, trying to keep the balance right. There is one area where we have great problems in controlling what happens. We have nearly 6 million people who are self-employed. We have talked about what you could do with people in employment and the support that could be given to them. What attention is being given to the issue of the self-employed? The Minister also mentioned that the Government have looked at the way in which the sequencing of communications should take place. Perhaps he might say a little more about that. Perhaps we might explore the opportunity to be positive. We have many people who are lonely, and I hear that many people are fearful—very frightened. Perhaps we should start getting some positive messages to them as well somewhere in the sequencing, so that they can feel less fearful than they are at the moment.

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord is quite right to ask about those who are either in the gig economy or unemployed. The Government need to look at this matter more closely. Provisions have been made on statutory sick pay and there are welfare arrangements through universal credit, but if those are not enough and do not provide the financial security and necessary provisions for those in need, we will review them and make the appropriate changes. The noble Lord’s points on the community are well made. I confess that we in the Department of Health are super-focused on the medical challenge, but one cannot help feeling that this may be a moment for the country to come together. If communities seek to support those in need, there may well be a silver lining to this cloud.