COVID-19 Variant: Travel Guidance for Local Authorities

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Pinnock

Wednesday 26th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, as I sought to explain to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, there is a huge amount of consultation with directors of public health. There are meetings on these matters on a daily basis through the chief medical officer, the silver/gold process and the local outbreak teams. However, the right reverend Prelate refers to a serious issue. We are seeking to avoid the kind of legal lockdowns that the public are quite understandably exhausted by and naturally quite resistant to. Therefore our message to the public is that we are asking them to behave in a responsible fashion, to act with caution and to use their common sense, as he had to in his decision about whether to come to London. We are not seeking to legislate on that, and we are asking people to make those decisions for themselves. I completely sympathise with those who find that challenging and who in some cases would prefer to have some certainty. However, that is what people have asked for and it is the right approach to keep the British public on side during this difficult period.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I refer the House to my relevant interests. I live in Kirklees, one of the affected areas. Yesterday, the new guidance on the Government’s website said, “Avoid meeting inside”. Today, the amended site says, “Meet outside where possible”. Perhaps the Minister can help me. Does it mean that, in Kirklees and elsewhere, pubs, cafés and restaurants must turn customers away from service inside? The Minister has just said, “We must use common sense”. Does that mean that council meetings must be held virtually, not face-to-face, which is what the other part of the Government now demand?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has given some very good examples of exactly where we are asking the public, and legislatures, to use their common sense. We are saying, “Avoid meeting inside”, but we are not closing the pubs. We also say, “Avoid smoking”, but we do not ban smoking.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Pinnock

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, there is very wide access to tests. Anyone who wants a test can apply for one today and, in almost any location in the country, will get one this afternoon. Whole-population testing is not the Government’s strategy, because testing at this level of prevalence would throw up more danger of wrong results than positive results. In terms of private and university labs, I absolutely pay tribute to the Crick, the University of Birmingham, the University of Cambridge and all other university and private labs that have contributed to the test and trace programme.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD) [V]]

I am a councillor in Cleckheaton, where there was a significant outbreak in a meat-processing factory, with 165 positive cases identified. The Secretary of State has, rightly, praised the local response. However, the national testing response has been described as “shambolic”, and it hindered an effective local response. What has been learned from the incident? Apart from belatedly sorting data-sharing, how will government actions change as a result?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness talks of an incident that I do not know the details of, but I do not deny that we are on a learning curve. We will publish new guidelines tomorrow on our local outbreak response; we are publishing guidelines on the opening of venues for 4 July; and we are working extremely hard to stitch together much better relations between the centre, where a lot of the data inevitably ends up in a big system, and the insight of local actors in local PHE, local infection, NHS and local authority bodies. This has been happening for many weeks and we have already made huge progress, but there is still more to do.

Health Infrastructure Plan

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Pinnock

Monday 30th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I am not my noble friend Lady Jolly, as you might have noticed. She is on holiday, so I have the pleasure of responding to this Statement. Clearly, any additional funding is to be welcomed in our NHS and will be a huge relief to those hospital trusts seeking to deliver world-class care in wretched buildings.

However, it seems the funding is inadequate compared with the desperate need. The NHS England chair, the noble Lord, Lord Prior, said that £50 billion of capital investment is required to bring the NHS estate up to scratch. In comparison, this £2.7 billion is a drop in a very large ocean. In addition, as the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, has said, an additional £6 billion-worth of urgent repairs have been identified on the NHS estate. They too need capital funding. It is no good having political headlines when basic needs are being neglected. In that context, this seems too little and too late. Further on the funding question, we ask where the money will come from. Presumably it will be government borrowing, which will therefore have a revenue consequence. I am sure the hospital trusts want to know whether that will be passed on to them to fund, as revenue consequences from capital investment.

The next area that I want to explore is the apparent ending of the PFI funding approach, which has put such a burden on too many hospital trusts that have PFI payments on their bottom line. The IPPR think-tank published a report on this—earlier this month, I think—in which it said that NHS hospital trusts have been crippled by the private finance initiative and will have to make another £55 billion in payments by the time the last contracts end in 2050. Those payments relate to an initial £13 billion of private sector-funded investment in new hospitals, so the approach will cost the NHS in England a staggering £80 billion by the time all contracts come to an end. Some trusts are having to spend as much as one-sixth of their entire budget—I stress, one-sixth—on repaying debts due as a result of the PFI scheme. Can the Minister supply the evidence that has resulted in such a U-turn on how capital builds are now being funded? Presumably, the Government are changing from a PFI approach to their own funding approach. Have they decided that PFI funding is not value for money? If such a conclusion has been reached, can the Minister assure the existing PFI hospitals that additional funding support will be provided to those hard-pressed trusts?

Moving on to the list of those hospital trusts that are to benefit, I am obviously pleased that the six in the first phase of the scheme are there. But the question remains: how were they chosen? Where is the data to support such choices and will the Government please publish it, so that we can all be assured of the transparency of decision-making? I am absolutely sure that plenty of hospital trusts across the country are wondering why their particular hospital was not in that first six. Why are there only six in the first list? If there are so many in urgent need of renewal why are there not seven, eight or 10? If the Government are so keen on having world-class facilities, perhaps they ought to be more ambitious.

I move on to what I call the “maybe” list. The headline in the Statement is about,

“40 hospital building projects across the country”,

but we have the six—so that is a reduction—and then we find that there are 21 identified somewhere. I have a little list somewhere of which they will be; I was not filled with optimism about them. What I have discovered from the list of 21 which are to have seed funding is that there are absolutely none in my own Yorkshire and the Humber area. I think there are three in the north-west but none in the north-east at all. Perhaps the Government will be able to tell me that there are no hospitals in Yorkshire and the Humber, or in the north-east, that require any seed funding to develop plans for new builds. If the Minister is struggling to answer that, perhaps I may refer him to the Huddersfield Royal Infirmary, which is in desperate need of investment. Perhaps he will be able to explain why it and other hospitals are not on this list of 21. It leads me to wonder, if that list gets us to 27, where are the other 13? I am sure that many Members around the House will be able to supply the Minister with the names of hospitals that could be added to this list.

We then move on to the fundamental issue of recruitment of doctors and nurses, as referred to by the Minister in the Statement, to enable the NHS to deliver the high quality of care that we want in the new buildings that are apparently to be built. We know that there are currently 40,000 vacancies for nurses in hospital trusts and 20,000 vacancies for doctors. The Statement as it was published in the Printed Paper Office refers to the,

“wonderful staff … at the heart of the NHS”—

we can all agree with that—and talks about “bolstering the workforce”. However, there is then a phrase that the Minister omitted when reading it out. The published Statement says,

“bolstering the workforce through greater international recruitment”.

I wonder why the Minister omitted that phrase, because, unless that is the case, we will be unable to have a sufficient number of qualified nurses and doctors in our hospitals.

Finally, I want to draw attention to the conclusion of the Statement, which refers to,

“a long-term, strategic investment in the future of our NHS”.

Where is it and where is the money that goes with it? Announcing funding for six hospital trusts is not a strategic plan; some of us would probably call it an electoral bung. Where is the funding and where is the plan for a wholesale upgrade of the NHS trusts estate? If there is no funding, I have to conclude by saying that fine words butter no parsnips.

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the warmth of my welcome to this initiation in the art of Statement-giving; I shall try my hardest to answer as many questions as were put. They were terrific questions.

I start by reiterating the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, which is that this is fabulously good news. An announcement of an investment such as this does not come often. It is a cause for celebration and something in which we should take pride as a country.

The question of new money is always important when there is a major spending announcement, so let me cut to that first of all. This is additional funding; it is not moving cups around, and it comes directly to the department’s capital budget, the CEDL, which is being increased accordingly. The vast majority of the funding will be in the form of public dividend capital, which is commonly understood as a grant, but the one caveat is that where schemes have related land disposals the proceeds from those land disposals will contribute to the scheme funding.

The funding for this investment is £2.8 billion; £2.7 billion is for the six schemes that I mentioned and £100 million is seed funding to assist the further 21 HIP schemes in developing their plans. That is very important money and I shall come back to it later in my response. Future funding will of course be agreed with the Treasury in due course.

On the number count, the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Pinnock, raised questions about the 40. Let me explain. Six new hospitals are getting the full go-ahead now and 21 more schemes will get the green light at the next stage of developing their plans. Some of those schemes are multi-site: therefore, there are 30 hospitals within the 21 schemes. That is why we get to a number that is over 40.

Maintenance was brought up. It is critically important. We can invest all we can in the staff and the science but, if we do not have good infrastructure—clean, non-leaking hospitals with wi-fi and the latest technology—the system will not work properly. I think that the NHS acknowledges that its infrastructure has fallen behind. This investment is a recognition of that fact. There is a maintenance backlog: the Government have put in £3 billion in capital funding to fix the leaking roof. We provided an additional £1 billion in August, which will enable the NHS across the country to take forward existing plans for more investment and to address urgent capital issues in line with local priorities. The NHS’s full capital needs will be provided for as part of the DHSC’s settlement in the next capital review.

I thank noble Lords for bringing up mental health. Of course, some of the hospital projects have mental health dimensions to their locations. However, I confirm that the health infrastructure plan covers all types of investment, including mental health. We will invest in community and mental health facilities when the long-term capital budget is confirmed in the second round.

I can confirm that none of these projects will be financed using PFI. We will see a return to financing major health infrastructure projects from the government grant. This is part of a change in approach that will see a long-term plan for health infrastructure that can be fine-tuned as the years go by, informed by NHS England and interactions with stakeholders. It can be a really clear route map for how we do investment, and it can be funded reliably and without dependency by government funds, which means that there is no negotiation or third party that we have to handle in funding these hospitals.

I thank noble Lords for asking how the hospitals were chosen. It is a very important question. NHS England conducted a strategic assessment of hospital estates and came up with a list of priority schemes selected on the basis of age and/or where a combination of other metrics indicated a high need for investment in the estate. Based on that, a small number of schemes were identified as suitable for full funding now, given their advanced level of readiness to deliver in the near future. I emphasise that point: the number of shovel-ready plans on the conveyor belt and ready to go today is quite limited. A very limited list met the criteria. The £100 million that has been set aside to help hospitals invest in those plans is a really important part of developing the capability and resources within hospital and trust capital planning teams, so that they can put together the thoughtful and persuasive plans that mean that they will qualify for the next round. The remaining list of priority schemes was then filtered, based on a combination of criteria including the level of critical infrastructure risked in the estate and the overall check of regional breakdown, to make sure that no regions were overrepresented or underrepresented.

It is a concern for the Government to make sure that we have enough staff to fill these new hospitals. That is why the noble Baroness, Lady Harding, is putting together her workforce plan for the NHS, which we hope will answer the question of how we will develop the NHS workforce to man these hospitals.