Care Homes: Guidance

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Ludford

Wednesday 21st April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, there are two points of difference. One is that we can take certain measures to guide the behaviours of care home workers but we cannot mandate for every aspect of their lives. Secondly, care home workers wear PPE and that significantly reduces their infectiousness. We do not ask care home residents to wear PPE. Were we to do so, I think it would provoke suitable concern among residents and their families. As a result, we have to have these isolation protocols in place to avoid the spread of the virus.

[Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I am a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which has been concerned about the treatment of care home residents over the past year. It is continuing its inquiry with an evidence session this afternoon. As colleagues have asked, are not the Government sabotaging the chance for care home residents to have a trip outside, especially given that staff are coming and going without quarantine? The Government’s guidance says that they “recognise how important” outside trips are

“for residents’ health and well-being”.

At the same time, and as the Minister has affirmed in his answers today, they recognise that their requirement for a 14-day isolation period

“is likely to mean that many residents will not wish to make a visit out of the home.”

This is insulting and treats care home residents and their families like children, not as responsible adults.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I completely sympathise with the noble Baroness’s point. She is right: this puts huge pressure on residents and their families. I am heartfelt when I say that I completely agree with her that this has an impact on the mental health and well-being of residents. However, their health, their safety and their actual lives take priority, I am afraid. We are at a moment where, even with the rollout of the vaccine, there is still a high infection rate in the country. If the virus gets into a home it has a potentially devasting effect, spreading very quickly within the confined spaces of the home among people who, typically, are highly vulnerable. That is why we have to put in place these serious protocols. This is done with huge regret and we review it constantly. It is my sincere hope that we can lift these protocols as soon as we possibly can, but until the day when the evidence is conclusive, we have to have them in place in order to protect lives.

Covid-19: Response

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Ludford

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

When the Health Secretary told the other place yesterday that he was preparing to roll out his contact-tracing app, he rejected the plea from my colleague, Daisy Cooper MP, for a law providing for specific, rigorous safeguards. When does the Minister expect to get the response from the Information Commissioner on the data protection impact assessment for the app, which has been judged by privacy experts to be confusing and misleading?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness raised the data protection impact statement, which I have read. I did not find it confusing; I thought it was extremely straightforward and it has been welcomed by a large number of the privacy groups I have spoken to.

Coronavirus Bill

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Ludford

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and all those who have signed up to this amendment have made incredibly important points that the Government utterly confirms. I reassure the Committee that this Bill is very clearly focused on the present danger of SARS-CoV and the Covid-19 disease. If there is any other virus—and even if this virus mutates— we will need a new Act or at least to amend this one.

The Government are 100% committed to protecting and respecting human rights. We have a long-standing tradition of ensuring that rights and liberties are protected domestically and of fulfilling our human rights commitments. That will not change. We have strong human rights protections, with a comprehensive and well-established constitutional and legal system. The Human Rights Act 1998 gives further effect in UK law to the rights and freedoms contained in the European Convention on Human Rights. Nothing in this Bill contradicts that.

I reassure a number of speakers—including but not limited to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy—that there is nothing in this Act that allows the Government to breach or disapply the Human Rights Act or the Equality Act. The Bill itself is fully compliant with the Human Rights Act and the Government have certified this on the face of the Bill— in fact, I signed it myself in accordance with Section 19. Pursuant to Section 6 of the Human Rights Act, every exercise of power by a public authority under this Bill is already required to be compliant with the Human Rights Act. I further reassure the House that, at all times, this Government will act with proportionality.

I am advised by legal counsel that the amendment is potentially both unnecessary and unhelpful. If we accept it, it might imply that the Human Rights Act and Equality Act do not apply in this way in other Bills or Acts that do not feature this sort of provision. For that reason, I suggest that the amendment should be withdrawn.

[Baroness Ludford]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for what he said, which gave considerable reassurance—up to the last sentence or two. I was permitted by the Public Bill Office to table this amendment, so I am therefore slightly surprised at his reporting of the advice he has had from legal counsel. Obviously, I have to take note of what he said. No doubt they have greater legal minds than mine, although I note that the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, co-signed my amendment. I am a little taken aback by what the Minister said, but I none the less welcome the rest of his response. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Ludford

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

On government priorities I will be really simple and clear. The Government’s priorities are to save lives and to support the NHS. That is our objective and that is what we are throwing our energies into. In terms of sick pay and support for the self-employed, provisions for those have yet to be published, but when they are I look forward to them being discussed.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My noble friends Lady Brinton and Lady Hamwee have tried to get an answer from the Minister on this question of enabling businesses to claim on their insurance. If they are just advised to close, as I understand it, most of them would not be able to do so, but now we hear from my noble friend Lady Hamwee that DCMS has actually instructed theatres to close—but only theatres. What about restaurants, bars, clubs and everybody else? It does not seem to be a very coherent situation and for the Minister just to say that it is not within his purview to answer this question is frankly not good enough. Could he please give a clear answer as to whether not only theatres but other businesses will be instructed by the Government to close, so as to enable them to claim on their insurance policies?

[Lord Bethell]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, this is a fast-changing situation. I cannot come to this House, in all honesty, and give an account for every single element of the strategy since we have turned around some of these decisions in very quick time. Our focus is on health and on our clinical decisions. When I am able to deliver an answer to that question, I will do it. As soon as I can, I will be glad to write to the noble Baroness.

Criminal Records Notifications Disclosure

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Ludford

Wednesday 15th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The paper trail is extremely complex, and I am not in a position to give the kind of blow-by-blow account that the House would like. I sympathise with the question, and I would like to be able to give the noble Lord more detail. I am afraid that these issues are a necessary part of upgrading our technical and data arrangements. This is a complex and ongoing project, and while this mistake is extremely regrettable, at no point has there been any suggestion that those involved have not behaved with best intentions.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, unfortunately this issue appears to go not only to competence—it paints a rather sorry picture of a Home Office-related database—but to trust. The question of when the police and Ministers knew about this problem, which was asked about previously, harms our reputation. Unfortunately, it comes swiftly on the heels of another revelation that is being pursued in the European Parliament, which is that the UK is being charged with the illegal copying of data from the Schengen Information System on to a national database and then sharing it with private companies. An internal report from the European Commission makes very interesting reading, but I do not know whether the Commission is pursuing infringement proceedings. However, none of that will help with the subject that we will be discussing later today —the question of seeking a data adequacy assessment from the European Commission. We are not exactly scoring 10 out of 10 on either competence or trust in our handling of European data shared under data-sharing arrangements.

[Lord Bethell]

The data arrangements that Britain is committed to are handled with great delicacy by this country. Ministers are thoroughly committed to trying to make them work, and Britain has a very good record on both technical delivery and trust. I go back to the statistic that I shared earlier: 30,000 conviction notices were sent through ECRIS to our European partners, whereas 16,000 were received. That is an indication of what a strong and energetic partner we are in these matters, and I reassure the House that that remains the commitment of the Government.