Copyright and Rights in Performances (Personal Copies for Private Use) Regulations 2014
Debate between Lord Berkeley of Knighton and Lord Scott of Foscote
Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)
My Lords, I suppose I should declare an interest, being both a composer and a broadcaster. I am grateful to the Minister for underlining once again the Government’s support, commitment and gratitude to the creative industries. I am not surprised at that gratitude, since they bring in a huge amount of money to this country and, perhaps even more important, a huge amount of cultural kudos.
However, I am profoundly concerned by these copyright exceptions. I will not rehearse completely the words of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, or, indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, since they could not have been more clear, but I want to stress one very important point. The Government have argued—again, this follows on from the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones—that there is no more than minimal harm arising out of the private copying exception. However, what empirical evidence do the Government possess to support what may otherwise appear to be just an assumption? If the Minister has not already done so, please could she ask her departmental research team to commission further evidence on damage, given the questionable evidential base they are currently relying on? How, precisely, do the Government intend to monitor harm arising out of the exception once it has come into force, given that in practice it is likely not to be the same as has been predicted in theory? Indeed, the level of harm can be expected to change over time as markets develop. Will the Minister give the House an undertaking that if the Government find evidence of harm, the legislation will be promptly amended to provide for a compensation mechanism?
Many people working in the creative industries live on fairly modest means. Their royalties need to be protected—without them, they will find it very hard to survive. Not everyone has the kind of income generated by incredibly successful pop groups or commercial composers, yet those composers who are perhaps working at the sharp end—those artists and photographers—are precisely those who spread the word about the cultural life of this country. I fear that we may be bolting the stable door after the horse has disappeared; but I am hoping that we might be able to prevent more horses following suit. I strongly urge the Government to listen to the points that have been made by noble Lords thus far and which I am now emphasising.
Lord Scott of Foscote (CB)
My Lords, I declare an interest in this debate. I was a member of the Select Committee that produced the report to which reference has been made. I agreed with the contents of that report wholeheartedly and recommended the forcefulness of the views expressed in it to your Lordships.
The importance of this is plain. There are a number of individuals who create copyright works on which they rely for their livelihood. They are entitled at the moment to the protection of the law of copyright so that the work they have brought into existence is not taken advantage of by others, without reward for them. The regulations now before the House will have a very serious effect indeed on people of that sort.
I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and others that this is a change in the law that would have been better brought about—if it was to be brought about at all—by primary legislation. The House could have gone into Committee and amendments could have been put forward and fully debated. To use regulations to bring about a change in the law of this extent seems to me a misuse of the legislative procedure that has been adopted.
I do not want to add to what the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord Clement-Jones, and my noble friend Lord Berkeley of Knighton said. I agree with what they said but want to draw attention to the aspect of contract override, which was discussed in the Select Committee. The Minister who gave evidence to the Select Committee was the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, accompanied by Ms Heyes. He defended the legislative proposals that your Lordships are now considering and raised the matter of contract override. He and Ms Heyes informed the Select Committee that the effect of the provisions in the regulations,
“would not be retrospective, but would apply only to new contracts; and that the provisions were precedented, inasmuch as an existing exception allowing material to be photocopied in schools could not be overridden by contractual terms”.
However, we are not talking now about education but about private use.
The text of the private use regulation does not confirm the assurance that we thought was given by the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, that the provisions,
“would not be retrospective, but would apply only to new contracts”.
However, in Regulation 3, new Section 28B(10) of the relevant Act states:
“To the extent that a term of a contract purports to prevent or restrict the making of a copy which, by virtue of this section, would not infringe copyright, that term is unenforceable”,
so it is retrospective. It would apply to negate the content of contracts that have been entered into, perhaps since the Minister appeared before the Select Committee in May and gave the assurance to which I have referred, which is set out in the report. That assurance may have been relied on but the proposition that this retrospection can now be incorporated in the regulations seems to me quite wrong. I hope that the Minister will comment on that when she replies to the debate.
The proposition that personal use copying should be permitted and should be free from any copyright infringement is obviously a very important one for all producers of copyright material. What does personal use mean? Does it mean that it would be a breach of copyright for the person who acquires a copyright work to copy it for the benefit of his children? Presumably, that would not be his personal use. How would the personal use limitation be enforced? How could the copyright proprietor possibly know what was being done with his copyright work by the person entitled to copy it for his personal use? Can you copy it and give it to friends as Christmas presents or give it to your children to take to school to show their school friends?
I respectfully suggest that it is not a satisfactory limitation at all. I suggest that this is precisely the sort of legislation that ought to have been referred to Committee to be gone over paragraph by paragraph, with amendments being put forward, discussed and voted on. I thoroughly support the Motion of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson.