Prison Services: Insourcing

Debate between Lord Bellingham and Lord Timpson

Wednesday 5th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I completely agree. Having run a business for a long time, and paid a lot of tax, I am very aware that I want it spent wisely. Let me give one example: BT does the majority of our phone contracts in our prisons, for prisoners to make calls to family and friends. I managed to reduce the cost of those calls by 20% by working with BT, and I think holding suppliers to account is part of my job. Maybe they do not like to come and sit in my office, but they frequently do and I challenge them to ensure we get good value for money.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister quite rightly mentioned the importance of leadership. Did he see a recent report regarding two prison governors, who put out a statement saying they were going to introduce drugs-free wings? Why are there drugs in prisons? Surely it is an absolute aberration for governors to be talking in those terms. We should be removing all drugs from prisons.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right that drugs are a huge problem: 49% of prisoners who arrive in prison declare to us that they are addicted to drugs and alcohol. We then put them in prison with many serious organised criminals, who make their livelihood from supplying drugs. That is where we have the problem. We need more drug-free living wings. They are important and they help people turn their lives around. I also agree that we need to trust our governors and our leaders in prisons to make the right decisions for their prisoners.

Protection of Prison Staff

Debate between Lord Bellingham and Lord Timpson

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is right that the best way to de-escalate a problem in a prison is by jail craft—understanding the complexities and knowing your prisoners. If we look at the tools available to prison officers, we see that the best one is their mouth, but we also need to look at what we can do to protect our staff, because they need protecting in some of our establishments where they are dealing with complex and dangerous prisoners.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, one of the main causes of violence in prisons is the ready availability of illegal drugs. The Minister’s boss, the Secretary of State, stated the other day that it was her intention to try to rid our prisons of drugs by the end of this Parliament. Is that a realistic pledge?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right that drugs are a massive problem in our prisons. Some 49% of people arriving in prison tell us they are addicted to drugs, and then we put them in a prison with serious organised criminals who make a lot of money out of selling drugs to them, so clearly we have a problem. However, I am interested not just in tackling drugs getting into prisons—how we tackle drones and illegal contraband coming in—but in how people can leave prison not addicted, so that when they leave prison they do not go back.