Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [Lords]

Debate between Lord Bellingham and Jo Swinson

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 1st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sir Henry Bellingham]

I declare an interest as the chairman of the all-party group on the British Virgin Islands and as a former Minister for the overseas territories. I had the pleasure of visiting all but two of them during my time in office.

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss). She said that not enough progress has been made, but I disagree. I think a lot of progress has been made, and I will come on to that in a moment. We are all of the same view, however, about the problem that exists, which was so eloquently outlined by the right hon. Member for Barking (Dame Margaret Hodge) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell). No one can disagree with what they said or about the scale of the problem; it is just a question of how we attack and deal with this problem.

When I was a Minister, I came across a number of examples of straightforward pilfering by different parties in African countries. One that my right hon. Friend and I dealt with, when he was the Secretary of State for International Development and I was the Minister for Africa, involved the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where a company called Tullow had its licence expropriated, completely unreasonably, by the DRC Government. It transpired that, after it was expropriated, it was handed over to a nephew, I think, of President Kabila and to a relative of President Zuma, while the company receiving the assets was registered in the BVI.

We know exactly what the problem is, but the question is how we should go about dealing with it. In many ways, I am disappointed with the Government. I feel that they should have tabled their new clause a bit earlier and made the arguments for it and that they should very much have stuck to their ground, but we must now move forward.

As far as the economies of those territories are concerned, unless people have had the chance to go there, it is difficult fully to understand the extent to which some of them have become dependent on international financial services—in the Caymans, it is obviously banking; in the BVI, it is international corporate registrations. They are extremely successful economies, with a very large number of professional service jobs clustering around their business model. I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend when he said that they can compete in other areas, such as tax and efficiency, as well as looking after the clients, and I hope that many parts of those professional and service businesses can expand, but there will be a disruption to their business model in the short term.

I am concerned that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office will be required to work incredibly closely with the Governments of those territories—particularly those of the BVI and the Cayman Islands, and to some extent those of the Turks and Caicos Islands and Bermuda—to make sure that, over the next few years, it puts in a huge amount of effort, knowledge sharing and capacity building.

My right hon. Friend will be more aware than anyone that, under the International Development Act 2002, the Department for International Development is the first port of call for financial assistance when something goes wrong in the territories. He and I obviously remember what happened in Montserrat, when DFID quite rightly came to the rescue, and when the Government of the Turks and Caicos Islands in effect went bust, DFID came up with a very large loan. That is why it is incredibly important that successful economies, such as that of the BVI, can transition to the new world in which they are going to have to live.

I would not have supported my right hon. Friend’s new clause 6. He asked me to support it, and I thought long and hard about it. In many ways, I would like to have done so, but I was very concerned about it for a few reasons, the first of which involves the constitution. As the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) pointed out, I was the Minister responsible for the overseas territories White Paper in 2012, into which DFID had a significant input, as indeed did the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) assisted in that part of the White Paper that looked at international obligations on biodiversity and so on. The White Paper said that the UK Government could and would legislate in extreme circumstances, and that was a given because the territories are our responsibility. The citizens of those territories are as British as we are, and we have the ultimate responsibility for them. In some circumstances, we would of course legislate, and we reserved the right to do so. But the White Paper, and all the discussions and promotion on it, made it clear that that would always be a last resort, and in every circumstance we would try to build consensus and work in partnership with the territories.

France has a different model, with some of its territories incorporated into La France and with representatives in the Assemblée Nationale. We have moved to a model of home rule that is different in every case. Every territory has a different constitution and a different type of home rule, and we must work now to try to build consensus. I sincerely hope that the nuclear option contained in new clause 6 of Orders in Council will not be needed. We will have to work hard to make sure that we make progress in terms of what is outlined in the new clause. If we do not, I foresee a serious stand-off with at least three of the territories. I also fear for the economies of the territories if change happens very quickly and they have a significant loss of income. How will they transition and build up tourism, for example, or agriculture, where the BVI is very far behind?

I am concerned also that those territories have nascent independence movements and they will look at what has been said in the House today and say, “Well, if Britain is not prepared to work with us on a consensual basis, why should we remain in the British family?” I will do all I can to dissuade them from that course of action. Over the next two or three years, I hope that Ministers will have many discussions and make a generous offer of assistance, so that we can make progress in the right way.

[Jo Swinson]

The hon. Gentleman says that we need consensus and to try to work with the overseas territories. I would gently point out that the UK has been showing leadership on this issue since the international summit in 2013. Why does he think the overseas territories have engaged so little on this agenda, and why is he optimistic about success without the type of measure that the House will agree today, given that the Government have been making the case for five years?

[Sir Henry Bellingham]

I understand the hon. Lady’s point, but I would point out that some of us worked extremely hard to build up to the exchange of notes in 2016, so that our law enforcement agencies can access key information from, for example, the BVI within a matter of hours and use it in various measures they take against serious organised crime, money laundering, international slavery and the expropriation of assets—[Interruption.] I hope that it is someone important. On 70 occasions, the law enforcement agencies have been able to move against unsavoury people and get results.

If we move too quickly and without a decent transition, many of the corporate registrations will not stay in the BVI, the Cayman Islands, the Turks and Caicos Islands, Anguilla and so on: they will move to places such as Delaware, Panama, Venezuela, Nebraska and Equatorial Guinea—which my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield and I know well, as we have both visited it. Unless we are incredibly careful, that displacement will take place and, as the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne) pointed out, it will take place to the Crown dependencies.