Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord Beecham and Lord Elton

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I may remind your Lordships that we are on Report and interventions of that length are normally granted by leave of the House. I am sure that the House would have granted the leave, but that is normal practice.

[Lord Beecham]

I apologise if I have performed badly.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Debate between Lord Beecham and Lord Elton

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

The noble Lord, Lord Lansley, prayed in aid the state of public opinion about the benefits system. My noble friend Lady Hollis rightly corrected that. In addition to opinion polls, which have proved less than infallible in recent times, we should have a fact poll. We could then gauge what people really know about the issues that the country and individuals face. As my noble friend pointed out, there is a wide misapprehension about this issue as well as many others affecting the benefits system.

We are moving from a position in which the cap was related to average earnings to a different system. By sheer coincidence, perhaps, that move is taking place at a time when, after a long period in which average earnings have not risen, they have at last begun to rise. I suspect that this overdue rise in incomes, which would otherwise have affected benefits, has triggered the change that the Government are proposing. As other noble Lords have pointed out, and as we shall no doubt hear again during the Bill’s proceedings, one of the principal problems that families face is the very high level of rents in the private sector and the difficulty of obtaining alternative accommodation at a reasonable rent. So these incomes are very much under pressure, with or without benefits. We are not talking about excessive amounts of money; £20,000 for couples and lone parents outside London is not the kind of money that enables people to live a life of luxury—far from it.

These amendments do not destroy the system but try to impose some criteria by which the benefits cap should be assessed. What on earth can be wrong with the suggestion in Amendment 92 that the Secretary of State must take into account,

“the relationship between the level of benefit cap and median household income”,

the impact of the cap on households, local and public authorities and registered social landlords? What is there to object to in that proposal being a matter for consideration?

[Lord Elton (Con)]

May I tell the noble Lord my view, which is appropriate on occasions such as this? The longer a list, the more clear it is that things that are not included are not to be considered. That is counterproductive. The shorter the list, the more flexible it is.

[Lord Beecham]

If I may say so, that takes for granted the propensity of Governments in general, and this Government in particular, to look at a wide range of issues. Frankly, on the evidence of the last few years, I do not think that that is a plausible argument. Why should it not be on the record, as proposed in Amendment 93, that the Secretary of State should take into account,

“the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children”,

in his review of the benefit cap? Similarly, Amendment 94 proposes that the Secretary of State must take into account,

“the impact of the benefit cap on disabled people, their families and carers”.

If these issues are taken into account, the Government lose nothing by it, but if they are not, or if there is a risk that they will not be, then they should surely be part of the process.

If the Minister is going to resist the amendments, I cannot understand why. They do not dispense with the possibility of having a cap. In this context, and in others, I repeat: one of the principal problems is the cost of private rented housing, in which very many people who rely on benefits are found. We will return to that later, but we should not forget it even as we look at these amendments, which I commend and support.