Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (England) Regulations 2015

Lord Beecham Excerpts

Monday 14th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, unlike the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, the Minister managed to refer to me at some length, although not too long a length, in the Grand Committee debate. Perhaps smoke got in her eyes, or maybe her ears, when the noble Lord was speaking.

While I welcome the Minister’s affirmation that Airbnb properties will be covered, I was a little puzzled by her reference to fire regulations some time before the legislation—some years before; I think she said 2005. Perhaps she could clarify that, because I do not understand how or why there should be a difference in approach under different forms of legislation for those kinds of properties. It seems sensible to have a single regime for all properties at risk that are rented out wholly or in part, but that does not seem to be the case. Airbnb properties are not within the definition of properties affected by these regulations; they may be covered, but I invite the Government to consider whether a single regime would make more sense.

The noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, anticipated the points that I was going to make about the report of the joint delegated legislation committee. Both of us, and perhaps other noble Lords, will be interested in the Minister’s reply in that regard. She did not mention the first report of your Lordships’ Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which noted in paragraph 7:

“The Department has said that it is working with lettings agents, landlord representative bodies”,

and so on,

“to publicise the requirements over the six months from March 2015. It will be important that the Department secures effective publicity for the new requirements in good time for the date”.

In replying to the debate in Grand Committee, the Minister said that How to Rent, the document giving advice to tenants,

“may well be updated in terms of giving tenants more advice … We also want to update How to Rent, as I have just said … in time for 1 October 2015”.—[Official Report, 7/9/15; col. GC177.]

I take it that that has happened, but perhaps she would confirm that it has been updated. Could she also confirm that it has been distributed and, if so, to whom and by what means? It is unlikely that the department actually knows which properties are rented and where these matters are to be delivered, so what form has that publicity taken? What efforts are the Government making to test whether the methods of delivery have been efficacious? After all, we are only a couple of weeks away from the implementation date. There are clear issues there.

Issues have been raised by outside organisations, some of which we have already heard about. I had a letter—I do not know whether other noble Lords have had it—from the vice-president of the Association of Residential Letting Agents. She also serves as a board director on the National Federation of Property Professionals and has worked for a long time in this sector. She made a number of points. One concerned the timeframe for implementing the legislation, which others of your Lordships have mentioned. The second concerned a deadline for recording that detectors are in working order. At the moment the guidance from the department says that that check has to be made on the first day of the tenancy, irrespective of whether the tenant moves in on that date or later. That, she says, is very impractical, and I can understand why. She recommends that recording that the detectors are in working order should be carried out at a time leading up to the start date and preferably prior to that date so that any repairs or improvements can be made in good time.

She raises a third point about the need to check the detector to confirm that it is in working order. I confess to having no expertise at all in these matters— I am clearly guided by her. However, it appears that some of the units that have already been installed—sealed lithium units, I gather—are recommended to be used for 10 years. To comply with the new legislation, the agent or owner can record the time and date of the installation. That is certainly true, but who is to know whether the units have been installed before, what state they are in and whether they should be checked. Therefore, there seem to be practical difficulties.

She also makes the recommendation that further advice be provided by the fire service regarding methods of checking the working order of any smoke detector. That is another aspect of publicity that needs to be given to landlords, and, again, I invite the Minister to indicate whether such advice will be made available.

We are all anxious that the regulations are implemented and that safety for tenants or other occupiers should be enhanced. Given the admittedly restricted reach of these regulations, to which I referred in Grand Committee and which the noble Baroness acknowledged with the communication that there could be further regulation, can she say when such regulations might be prepared? She has undoubtedly been put in a difficult position by the department. In our former capacity as leaders of councils, frankly, she and I would have been outraged by the inadequacy of the service provided in this case by those responsible for drafting the regulations.

I refer again to the need for publicity not just for landlords but for tenants to ensure that they contact their landlords to carry out the check. Given that it is impossible for the department to contact tenants individually, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that such publicity is given through the media—the print media, the broadcast media and social media for that matter—urging tenants to ensure that their landlords are called upon to check, first, that there is actual provision and, secondly, that the provision is effective? I am sure that local authorities—I declare my interest as honorary vice-president of the LGA—would be very willing to promote publicity in that respect. However, we are now only a couple of weeks away from the proposed start date and a degree of urgency is required. Obviously it will take time for all the necessary work to be carried out but surely it is imperative that tenants are aware of the requirement and of the need for them, in turn, to chase up their landlords to provide the appropriate safety measures if they have not begun to take action.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by declaring my interest as president of RoSPA. I caught up with these regulations only this afternoon but was moved to make a few comments on them because in times past I had some ministerial responsibility in this area. I do not propose to dwell on the process and timing or on some of the practicalities that have been raised. It seems to me that these have already been extensively covered by noble Lords.

I want to pick up on one or two points. Certainly, the substance of these regulations should be welcomed, as far as they go, although they do not go all that far. I hope that we all have common cause in supporting all measures that can reduce the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning, and the fatalities and illness that run from that. I am also sure that the Minister will have met, on more than one occasion, the campaigning groups that are very much focused on this area. The origin of their focus is almost inevitably that there has been some tragedy in their family or someone they know, which has motivated those groups to campaign. It is therefore important when we debate these issues that we are mindful of their position, too.

I have one or two points of detail. The regulations make reference to smoke alarms or carbon monoxide alarms being “equipped”. Perhaps the noble Baroness will say precisely what is meant by that. The building regulations for smoke alarms, as I understand them, require them to be hardwired. I am not sure that that flows in respect of these regulations. Clearly, if carbon monoxide detectors are not hardwired, they can readily go walkabout.

The capacity of local authorities to enforce is also an issue. The paperwork we have makes reference to discussion as to whether and how this fits with the doctrine of new burdens, and whether local authorities are going to be compensated, and to what extent, in respect of what is required of authorities in all this.

The regulations have a range of exclusions; I am thinking of paragraphs 2 to 7, which make exclusions for one reason or another because the provisions are covered in other ways. Perhaps the Minister can confirm that those exclusions are provided for in other regulations, such as the building regulations.

I wish to raise one point in particular. I refer to the impact assessment at the end of page 5, where it is stated:

“Therefore, any future homes built, or retrofitted with solid fuel installations, would be captured by existing building regulations … with regard to a Carbon monoxide alarm being installed. These regulations will not cover domestic gas appliances as the risk of Carbon monoxide poisoning is very low as a result of the safety features required to be incorporated into the appliance by Gas Appliances (Safety) Regulations … which first took effect on 6th April 1992. Additionally landlords are already required to carry out an annual gas safety check which should identify any unsafe gas appliances”.

I wonder how safe those assertions are. The substance of a lot of the campaigning is that carbon monoxide arising from gas appliances is very much at the heart of the issue that we are dealing with. Although there are mandatory annual checks, the problem is that those premises that are likely to have rogue landlords or landlords who do not care about compliance are more likely not to be subject to annual inspections. That is not a sufficient safeguard.

Finally, a number of points on the range of publicity and awareness-raising have been made, including by my noble friend Lord Beecham, and we have heard from the Chief Fire Officers Association about some of the work that has gone on. Can the Minister tell us about the efforts that the energy companies are making in all this? It was always a bone of contention as to whether they would help to fund campaigns and provide carbon monoxide detectors in particular. Can we have an update on the Gas Safe charities, which campaigned and raised awareness in all this? There used to be two; one arose from the old CORGI organisation, which was replaced by the Gas Safe Register. Way back, there was the intention that these organisations should be merged to create a better process. I am not sure whether that ever happened or what the current position is. It would be helpful to have an update on that in writing, if not this evening.

[Lord Beecham]

The noble Lord referred to energy companies. I wonder whether he agrees that they should be very much part of the publicity campaign. They are sending bills out after all, online or on paper, and it may well be useful to ask them—to demand of them, in fact—to incorporate some publicity in this respect.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

My Lords, I very much agree with what my noble friend has said. He has prompted me on one other point. The paperwork we have refers to campaigns that have taken place in various areas. A very effective campaign was undertaken in Liverpool among students. It is often students who are subject to renting the grottiest property around because that is all that they can afford. Working through the students’ union and the university was an effective way of raising awareness.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The point I was making is that we are trying to make the burden as light as possible. I will respond to the noble Lord on that.

The noble Lord asked about the exclusions and whether they would be covered in other legislation. Care homes, hospitals and hospices will be covered under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. Hostels, refuges and student halls will be treated exactly the same. The only sector that is not covered is social housing, but it is so good at its obligations to tenants that it was not an area that needed to be included in the regulations. He also asked what energy companies were doing. We could write to them and ask exactly how they are playing their part.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, mentioned that the regulations apply only to small parts of the sector. That is absolutely correct. They apply to parts of the sector that have shown the least duty of care historically to their tenants in terms of the installation of smoke and carbon monoxide alarms. He talked about no budget. Of course, a £4 million budget was given to the fire authorities, but I do not know whether he was referring to other budgets such as that referred to by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, talked about a widespread publicity campaign that still needs to happen. I will certainly go back to the department to see what further work can be done, given some of the concerns expressed in the House.

[Lord Beecham]

Before the Minister sits down, she referred to Airbnb and indicated that those properties were covered not by these regulations but by others. Can she—if not tonight, then in correspondence—provide the details of that? I was left somewhat puzzled by that response.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I forgot to respond on that. The fire safety order of 2005 is largely aimed at non-domestic premises whereas these regulations are aimed at residential premises. I will explain this point further in my letter to the noble Lord which we will send shortly. I will clarify the Airbnb point in the letter. I hope that that satisfies the noble Lord.