Litvinenko Inquiry

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon

Thursday 21st January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

That is a very good point, and it is characteristic of my noble friend to focus on the humanitarian aspects of this matter. I do not have a sufficient understanding of the situation but I give an undertaking to ensure that it is on the agenda when the Home Secretary meets Marina and Anatoly Litvinenko to make sure that any personal needs they have are met.

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned Syria. I do not understand why we regard it as necessary to be weak on the rule of law at home in order to persuade Russia to do what is in its national interests in Syria. I am sorry to strike a dissenting note to the general tenor so far, but in my view this Statement pretends to roar like a lion but in fact ends up squeaking like a mouse. There is only one new action, and that is to freeze the assets of the two perpetrators, who have no assets in Britain anyway, and shortly to be rude to the Russian ambassador. That is it. Moscow has been found by a British court to have murdered a British citizen using a nuclear weapon in daylight and in public in our capital city, and that is it. Perhaps I may suggest to the Government that they should go away and consider what further action should be taken. When they do so, perhaps they will bear in mind what Mr Putin would do if the tables were reversed and perhaps frame their actions around that.

[Lord Bates]

We might not go quite that far with Mr Putin as a role model for action. In a sense, I understand the point that the noble Lord is making, but let us remember that this report has come out into the open. It contains some damning verdicts on the Russian Administration, on the FSB and on the Russian President himself, and it poses a number of questions in the international community which we have said need to be answered. I think that the report itself is a step along the path of ensuring that we get justice in relation to this crime and of making sure that it does not happen again.

Mediterranean: Refugees and Migrants

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Yes, it is the Italian Government, as well as the Spanish and the front-line Mediterranean states, including Greece. They are part of the Schengen arrangement. The Frontex programme and organisation is behind them. We have said that we will offer support as required. We have already assigned one liaison officer and the Home Secretary is meeting with her Italian counterpart. She has said that if they need additions, we are prepared to look at that.

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)]

My Lords, the whole House will recognise that my noble friend is doing a manful job defending a completely untenable position. May I change tack a little? Why does the Government’s policy seem to be to support measures that can have only one result—to drown more refugees in the Mediterranean—rather than a policy whose aim is to lock up more people traffickers? Only one has ever been arrested—in Egypt, which is one of the main departure countries. Does my noble friend remember a few years ago when Her Majesty’s Government used all the resources at their disposal, including Special Forces, to rid the Caribbean of drug smugglers? Why can we not do the same thing to rid the Mediterranean of people traffickers?

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend hits the nail on the head. We need to tackle the traffickers who are exploiting this situation by placing vulnerable people in unseaworthy vessels and setting them afloat in exchange for €2,000 or €3,000 a head. That is absolutely morally outrageous. They are responsible for the deaths. That is why the National Crime Agency is working with Frontex and other organisations to bring them to justice. The legislation that your Lordships’ House passed in the Serious Crime Bill, and will pass in the Modern Slavery Bill, will help in that effort.

Refugees and Migrants: Search and Rescue

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon

Thursday 30th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)]

My Lords, it pains me to say to my noble friends that this is a discreditable policy, whatever words are used to describe it. We do not find it difficult to disagree with the European Union on all sorts of other matters, but do we have to lay our hand to a European policy whose central proposition is that the best way to discourage people from seeking a better life is to leave them to drown in the Mediterranean? This is inhuman, it is discreditable and it may well be contrary to our duties under international law to do everything we can to save those in peril on the sea.

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord comes to this with huge experience and understanding. However, those obligations which are there under the laws of the sea, maritime law and humanitarian law will remain as obligations on any vessels that actually come across people who are making this journey. The question is how we tackle this increasing trend effectively. This is not for the UK alone; this view was pored over on the basis of evidence, intelligence and information which came to the Justice and Home Affairs Council. All 28 member states agreed—which, as my noble friend suggested, is a pretty rare achievement—that, regrettably, this was having a counterproductive effect.