Income Support (Work-Related Activity) and Miscellaneous Amendments Regulations 2014

Lord Bates Excerpts

Tuesday 11th March 2014 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Bates]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Income Support (Work-Related Activity) and Miscellaneous Amendments Regulations 2014.

Relevant documents: 20th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, 29th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[Lord Bates (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations were debated in the other place on 3 March 2014 and I am satisfied that they are fully compatible with our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights.

The Government have made clear their commitment to improving sustainable employment opportunities and reducing worklessness, while supporting those who are unable to work or who are looking for work. Helping more people into work is essential to the recovery of the economy and to ensuring that people can achieve their aspirations and those of their families. Given this, we remain committed to giving people the support they need at the time it is needed.

The Government have already taken steps to provide additional support for lone parents but believe that more could and should be done to help them prepare for work. This is the reason for these regulations, which essentially provide for two separate changes. First, these regulations would bring income support into line with employment and support allowance by making the work-focused interview regime more flexible and responsive to individual needs. Secondly, they would make changes to income support, employment and support allowance, and universal credit in order to offer more support for lone parents with children aged three or older by requiring them to undertake appropriate activities that will help them prepare for work.

Since 2008, the age threshold for the youngest child has changed so that from May 2012 lone parents with a youngest child aged five or over have no longer been entitled to claim income support solely on the basis of being a lone parent. Such lone parents should either be in work or looking for work. We know that many lone parents are already taking steps in preparation for a return to work but we also know that many more lone parents would benefit from additional support to overcome barriers to future employment.

It is worth reflecting on the current position for attending mandatory work-focused interviews, which varies according to the benefit an individual is awarded. Lone parents with a child aged one to five who are entitled to income support are usually required to attend mandatory work-focused interviews every six months. In the year before entitlement ends, interviews take place on a quarterly basis. Lone parents on employment and support allowance with a child aged one to five attend flexible work-focused interviews, with the frequency determined by their work coaches. Under universal credit, lone parents and responsible carers with a child aged one to five also attend flexible interviews, the frequency of which is determined by their advisers.

From April, these regulations will bring in mandatory work-focused interviews for lone parents on income support, in line with the approach already taken for employment and support allowance and universal credit. The frequency of interviews will be determined by the adviser based on the needs of the individual. It means that a tailored package of support can be offered to lone parents at the time they need it rather than at predetermined times set by an inflexible appointments system. The Government believe that this approach will better serve lone parents to prepare for work. As the House has already agreed to this principle in universal credit and employment and support allowance, I trust that noble Lords will not see any reason to oppose this measure.

Secondly, these regulations change the work-related activity requirements for income support, employment and support allowance and universal credit. It might be helpful if I remind noble Lords of the current position. In the existing system, there is no requirement to undertake work-related activity within income support for any claimant. The current position in employment and support allowance is that lone parents in the work-related activity group can be required to undertake work-related activity when their youngest child is five. Currently, there are no requirements in universal credit for lone parents with a child aged one to four to undertake activities to prepare for work.

The mandatory work-related activity changes will affect lone parents and responsible carers with a youngest child age three or four who are entitled to income support solely on the basis of being a lone parent, those in receipt of employment and support allowance—in both the work-related activity group and new-style employment and support allowance—and those in receipt of universal credit.

The regulations remove the cliff-edge effect of going from not having any work requirements to having full work requirements that is currently faced by many lone parents when their youngest child reaches the age of five. The Government recognise that for many lone parents the main barrier to work or preparing for work has been the lack of affordable childcare. However, the Government have taken steps to improve this position. All children in England aged three and four are now entitled to free childcare for 15 hours a week. We expect lone parents and responsible carers to take advantage of this provision where they can so that they can start preparing for work. Childcare is a devolved matter and Scotland and Wales have their own equivalent offer.

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[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that explanation. Labour supports the aim of these regulations. Indeed, the leader of the Opposition said in a speech last June that in a workless household, both partners or a single parent should use some of the time while their children are at nursery to make some preparations that would help them get back to work. He also stressed that there would be no requirement to go back to work until the youngest child is five years old. So we support the aim of these regulations.

When this order was debated in another place, my right honourable friend Mr Stephen Timms asked a series of questions of the Employment Minister, Esther McVey. She was able to answer only two of them and perhaps not in the depth that my right honourable friend had hoped for. I shall therefore put some of the same questions to the Minister in the hope that the intervening week will have enabled his officials to brief him to answer them perhaps more fully than was possible on that previous occasion.

First and most seriously, why is there no easement in the regulations for lone parents who have suffered domestic violence? I acknowledge that the Government have taken domestic violence seriously. In this very Room not so long ago, we debated the new cross-government definition of domestic violence and I was pleased to give the Government support for aiming to do precisely that. In the Universal Credit Regulations 2013, there was a clear easement for domestic violence which stated that, for 13 weeks, there would be no work-related requirements. In jobseeker’s allowance, the claimant is exempt for four weeks, which can be rounded up to 13 weeks. But in these regulations, there is nothing.

On 3 March in the Delegated Legislation Committee in another place, Stephen Timms asked Esther McVey this question:

“Can she confirm that it is her intention that there will be guidance that makes it clear that there will be the 13-week easement for people who suffer domestic violence, in line with other regulations?”.

The Minister replied:

“I will indeed; it is right that, as such support is given in other areas, it should be given in this area”.—[Official Report, Commons, First Delegated Legislation Committee, 3/3/14; col. 14.]

Can the Minister confirm that it is indeed the Government’s intention that there will be guidance that makes it clear that there will be the 13-week easement for people suffering domestic violence? If so, can he explain why that is not in these regulations, as it is in the corresponding regulations on income support and jobseeker’s allowance? Finally on this first point, can he explain what a lone parent would have to do if a decision-maker should require her to undertake some work-related activity despite suffering domestic violence? After all, Gingerbread reports many cases of lone parents being pushed to do things which they are not required to do by regulations or by guidance, perhaps because of a misunderstanding among generalist advisers in jobcentres. What should a lone parent do in these circumstances?

The second question that I want to ask is on the issue of parents of children aged five who have not started school and are not legally required to receive full-time education. Parents have to explain why it would be unreasonable for them to find other arrangements for the care of the child until he or she is in full-time education. Why is that easement not in these regulations?

Thirdly, under the regulations and as the Minister explained, single parents cannot restrict their availability for work-related activities during their child’s normal school hours—which is to be expected—or when their child is under the temporary supervision of another adult. Gingerbread is concerned that the latter issue causes a potential problem, because it means that a single parent could be sanctioned for being unable to undertake work activities because informal childcare arrangements had broken down. The Minister may say that childcare is covered in the “good cause” provisions, but that is not acceptable because of the process that would have to be gone through to try to sort that out. In JSA, informal childcare is not taken into account when compliance is being determined, presumably for precisely this reason, so why is it here?

What would happen to a single parent asked to attend an interview or other work-related activity whose three or four year-old was not in nursery and who did not have access to reliable free childcare? How should she pay for childcare? In another place, when Stephen Timms asked about this, Esther McVey referred to the childcare subsidy available for the first year when a parent first starts work. She also referred to Childcare Assist, which helps with childcare costs in the week before a single parent starts work. What about someone who is not working and not required to work? How should she pay for her childcare in these circumstances? Gingerbread suggests that Jobcentre Plus should pay for the childcare. What does the Minister think of that?

Finally, there is the question of travel time. The JSA and universal credit regulations place a limit of 90 minutes’ travel time to and from an interview. Can the Minister confirm that that limit will apply also to single parents undertaking work-related activity? If so, will that be made clear in the guidance to decision-makers? I look forward to the Minister’s reply.

[Lord Bates]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her response and for generously saying that support for this initiative in preparing people for the world of work is shared across parties. When we are dealing with some of the most vulnerable people in the country, it is important that, as far as possible, such agreement exists.

The noble Baroness referred to domestic violence. Again, I preface my remarks by welcoming the fact that she acknowledged that the Government had taken this very seriously and it was of great concern. We do not believe it is necessary to put an easement for domestic violence into these regulations. The draft regulations are flexible enough for advisers to apply the policy when appropriate. The income support guidance will reflect the position in jobseeker’s allowance and universal credit by stating that when a person satisfies the policy requirements, they are eligible to receive the easement, which includes deferring interviews and not setting mandatory work-related requirements. Providing the domestic violence easement in guidance mirrors the current approach taken for claimants who are victims of domestic violence and abuse who are entitled to old-style employment and support allowance.

We believe that these regulations are broadly enough worded for that to be taken into account as a good reason why certain requirements may not be met. We do not think it is necessary to put it in the regulations, as has been requested. But in response to Stephen Timms in the other place, my colleague Esther McVey, who is the Minister responsible for this area, has said that she will issue guidance in this area to the workplace advisers. I hope that will go some way towards reassuring the noble Baroness on this point.

The noble Baroness asked what would happen if the coach made a claimant do something despite them being subject to restrictions. The requirement to undertake activity when subject to domestic violence would be a matter of good cause to be considered, and would also be subject to appeal if that was something that was disputed.

[Baroness Sherlock]

I just want to be sure that I have understood this correctly. Three questions occur. First, why would the Government use as their comparator the position in old-style ESA rather than JSA or universal credit—the creature of their own invention, which they have just introduced? What is the difference between somebody on universal credit and somebody on income support? Secondly, will the Minister clarify that the guidance he has just referred to will be for a 13-week easement? That was the question asked by my right honourable friend Stephen Timms. Thirdly, if a lone parent who had suffered domestic violence was then inappropriately asked to engage in work-related activity, she could appeal, but would her benefits be sanctioned in the mean time, and how long does the average appeal take? What would happen to her while she was trying to sort that out?

[Lord Bates]

While I am getting some guidance myself, I will move on to some of the other points that the noble Baroness raised. She asked: if childcare is not available, is this an excuse not to undertake a work-related activity? We have no power to mandate claimants to place their children in childcare in order that they can undertake work-related activity. Claimants may also restrict their availability for work-related activity to times when they do not have childcare responsibilities. However, claimants cannot use the unavailability of childcare as a reason for not undertaking work-related activity. Even with the ability to restrict their availability, the requirement to undertake work-related activity remains. Claimants must accommodate this requirement or face the possibility of sanction. Claimants would therefore need to be reasonable about what they could do, which may involve taking up the offer of free childcare. If a claimant fails to comply with work-focused interview or work-related activity requirements, the regulations prescribe that the availability of childcare must be taken into account in determining whether that is a good cause, although it is not determinative of good cause in itself.

The noble Baroness asked about comparisons with jobseeker’s allowance and universal credit and the limit of 90 minutes’ travel time to and from the place of interview. A 90-minute travel time to work in each direction applies to those claimants who are expected to look for, and be available for, work. It does not apply to lone parents affected by this change, not does it apply to claimants on employment and support allowance. Any work-related activity which a claimant is required to undertake must be reasonable, taking the claimant’s personal circumstances into account, including the time that it would take for the claimant to get there. When determining what is reasonable, matters such as the availability and practicality of using public transport, the location of work-related activity and childcare responsibilities must be considered. Guidance will be updated to ensure that advisers are aware of this and take account of claimants’ individual circumstances.

Another question was about what support the group could get from the flexible support fund. The flexible support fund can be used in a number of ways, including paying for travel and replacement adult or child care to enable lone parents to undertake training, attend interviews or start work.

On why we use comparator old-style ESA, not JSA or universal credit, the JSA easement is for jobseekers. The ESA easement is in guidance. We will consider the need to place this in regulations.

[Baroness Sherlock]

I thank the Minister. I urge him strongly to take the question of domestic violence back to his colleagues and to think again. I take the Minister’s line as possibly a hint that Ministers may indeed be doing that; I hope very much that I have not overinterpreted it. I look forward to hearing some more information about that. I do not think that the distinction between someone being a jobseeker or not seems to be a good reason why someone who has suffered domestic violence should be treated any differently. If one is coming out of that circumstance, the ability to look for a job, whether mandated to do so, or just to prepare for it, would both seem to be of comparable difficulty and ought to be treated similarly. I look forward to hearing some good news on that before long.

I want to clarify a couple of the Minister’s other points as I may have misheard them. When this matter was discussed in another place, the question of childcare—particularly the position of someone whose child was not in nursery having to use informal childcare—my understanding was that the Government’s position was that the additional childcare offer for two and three year-olds is an offer, not a requirement. I understood the Minister to say that, effectively, a lone parent would not be able to use the fact that he or she might not have access to any suitable childcare as a reason not to engage. Therefore, if they could not find anything else, they would have to take that offer up, whether they wanted to or not, or have their benefits sanctioned. Can the Minister clarify that?

On travel time, I am quite surprised to find that there is no limit. Can the Minister at least reassure the Committee that the guidance will say that one should not be expected to travel for three hours each way to do a brief interview or course? In a sense, the point of having a timeframe is that it is a time limit. If that time limit applies for a job, why would it not apply to a course or some other thing that the department might require the lone parent to do? Can the Minister reassure the Committee that there will be some limit, or some guidance, at least, given to decision-makers as to what a reasonable limit would be?

[Lord Bates]

On that point, we can safely say that that limit is consistent across JSA and ESA, and therefore the 90 minutes would continue to be the restriction. The whole point of this is to encourage an engagement to prepare people for their place of work, and therefore there is a degree of flexibility on both sides. On whether the 13-week easement in the case of domestic violence would still apply, the answer is yes.

On whether that guidance is still being formulated, of course, we introduce regulations and I would like to think that where we have had drawn to our attention certain lacunae in the regulations, particularly where they affect vulnerable people, we have shown a willingness to pause and look carefully at that. I am sure that when the guidance is issued, that will provide an opportunity for that to happen.

[Baroness Sherlock]

I thank the Minister for his graciousness in allowing me to intervene. There was one more issue, which was that of parents of children aged 5 who have not started school and are not legally required to receive full-time education, and why that easement was not in the regulations. I suspect the answer may be patterned on some of his previous answers.

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[Lord Bates]

I wonder whether the noble Baroness will bear with me and allow me to write to her on that specific point. I will also seek to follow up on some of the other points which have been raised. I understand the point and want to give an accurate response as opposed to a rushed or hasty one. I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for the interest she has shown in this change.

I hope that I have set out for the Committee the matters behind the regulations and have responded to the issues raised by noble Lords. Therefore, I commend these regulations to the Committee.

Motion agreed.