Energy Company Licence Revocation

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Wednesday 3rd September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds]

There is not a tension between the pursuit of affordability and the pursuit of decarbonised energy supplies—or, at least, there is not a problem that we cannot resolve. Yes, renewable energy is more expensive than, for instance, coal, on which the hon. Gentleman may be particularly keen, but surely that makes the transparency of our energy market more rather than less important. The need for us to ensure that there is a downward pressure on energy prices becomes more of an imperative when we are making that transition.

I am sorry that I did not respond to the hon. Gentleman’s point about solar tariffs. No one opposes the digression in tariffs and subsidy structures, but surely he recognises—

[Gregory Barker (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

rose—

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman in a moment.

Surely the hon. Gentleman recognises that the way in which Governments do that is important—and this Government have been notorious for chopping and changing policy on so many occasions. A business that is trying to invest and to provide jobs in this sector simply cannot continue unless the Government make the position clear.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I am afraid that I must now give way to the right hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker), who is, I believe, the longest-serving energy Minister for a decade. I certainly cannot allow the debate to end without allowing him to intervene from the Back Benches.

[Gregory Barker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He says that no one would oppose the digression in solar tariffs. May I point out that the entire Opposition Front Bench opposed it, and that their opposition would have forced up energy bills? He may not have been on the Front Bench at that time—it was some time ago—but I am sure that he would have been among the serried ranks of Labour Members who voted to keep bills higher.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I was there on that day, and I am sorry that the former Minister cannot remember that moment. Let me simply say to him, again, that the way in which the Government have gone about policy changes of that kind has caused terrible damage to important low-carbon parts of our economy. Let us look at what has happened quite recently. Let us look at the green deal for home improvement. There have been quick changes in policy which businesses cannot survive and with which they cannot contend. The same thing happened in the case of the energy companies obligation.

[Gregory Barker]

rose—

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I will give the right hon. Gentleman one more go, although he has not been present during the debate.

[Gregory Barker]

May I make one last point? The hon. Gentleman says that the digression that we imposed caused terrible damage. May I point out that since we reformed that feed-in tariff, more than 3 GW of solar have been added? Ours has been among the fastest-growing solar markets in Europe, and it is a legacy of which I am incredibly proud.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

The right hon. Gentleman and I have had this discussion before, and he knows that I am always keen to give credit to the Government for the increase in solar. By that, I mean the Chinese Government. They have done fantastic things to bring prices down, and we in this country have been able to benefit from that.

I will end my speech soon, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me end by saying that if the Government vote against our proposal to create a real deterrent, we will point out— every time further action is taken—that they did not use the opportunity to give the regulator real power to hold companies to account. Labour candidates for constituencies up and down the country will make clear that they support the measures that we propose. We will also tell people not just how long we have been discussing these issues, but how long it will be until the next general election, because then, and only then, will we have a chance to change the energy market, secure a good deal for customers, and make a switch that will truly count—the switch to a Labour Government, a Government who, for once, will be serious about taking on the issues.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Thursday 19th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point. We are keen to do even more for people living off the gas grid, particularly in rural areas. However, the hon. Gentleman failed to mention the significant payments that are available, through the new renewable heat incentive, to help such people manage the transition from expensive heating oil to new affordable technologies such as heat pumps.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

There is no doubt that the Government disappointed hundreds of thousands of customers last December when they responded to concern about rising bills by choosing to cut funding for energy efficiency measures. Given that the consultation on the cuts closed last month, and given that even Boris Johnson submitted evidence that they were too severe, will the Minister tell us whether there is any scope for mitigation of the reduction in the ECO targets, so that the 440,000 people who will miss out can be offered some hope of a warmer future?

[Gregory Barker]

There are choices to be made. We are pressing ahead with an ambitious roll-out of energy efficiency measures, and targeting the fuel poor in particular through the ECO. As I said earlier, figures released this morning show that nearly 700,000 people have been helped since the launch of the ECO and green deal programme. However, we also have a responsibility to all energy bill payers, and we chose to reduce people’s energy bills. The hon. Gentleman clearly places Labour on the side of higher energy bills for all hard-working families, but I am afraid that, in our judgment, we need to bear down on the cost of living.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Thursday 3rd April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

We have one of the most ambitious smart metering programmes in Europe, which we will roll out over this decade. The hon. Gentleman is right—the increasing deployment of smart meters will certainly work well with the green deal. If he talks to some of the entrepreneurs and the new companies coming into the market, which are backing the green deal and getting behind it, he will get a very encouraging picture indeed. There is a huge amount of innovation happening that we should all be proud of.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

The sector with the most energy-inefficient homes is without doubt the private rented sector, with thousands of people living in cold, inadequate homes that are expensive to heat. The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) referenced the fact that the Energy Act 2011 placed a duty on the Secretary of State to introduce a minimum standard for this sector from April 2018 at the latest. The Secretary of State was worryingly equivocal in his answer. Will the Minister therefore give a cast-iron promise today that this duty will be fulfilled, without loopholes and with the minimum standard at energy performance certificate rating E by 2018?

[Gregory Barker]

We would not have brought forward that measure in the Bill had we not intended to fulfil it. This is a coalition commitment, which we are proud of. We will make sure that it is implemented properly and we will consult appropriately. We are proud of that Bill and we are going to implement it.

Energy Company Obligation

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Tuesday 11th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[Gregory Barker]

I think we are talking slightly at cross purposes. Let me correct the idea that the ECO target has been obliterated, killed or put to bed, as anyone who listens to the Opposition could be forgiven for believing. The fact is that ECO has not reduced certainty; it has increased it. Labour’s CERT programme was year on year. It ran for 12 months, and was then extended for another 12 months. It was a hand-to-mouth programme. ECO now offers unprecedented transparency and long-term certainty for the insulation industry because we have extended it and guaranteed it up to 2017.

We have not simply stretched the target from 2015 to 2017. From 2013 to March 2015—27 months—we expect to deliver a saving through the scheme of around 14 megatonnes of carbon. In the period April 2015 to March 2017, to which we have extended the scheme, an additional 12.4 megatonnes will be saved, a cumulative total of 26.4 megatonnes, not 14 megatonnes. It is wrong to say that we have not extended ECO or that we are not offering long-term certainty against which companies in the supply chain can invest and set their business model.

We have given a clear message to companies in the supply chain that we cannot simply install the measures regardless of cost. We cannot reach our ambition to install solid-wall insulation at current prices, which is why we are trying to create a competitive market and to introduce new private sources of finance. We are trying to introduce greater competition and innovation to drive down the cost of the measures.

Although it is very early days for the green deal and ECO market, we are seeing real pressure on costs, not from the big energy companies but from the disruptive new entrants—the small and medium-sized enterprises, family business and entrepreneurs that are coming into the market. We should celebrate the fact that prices for solid-wall insulation are coming down. I have seen companies that are not only bringing down the cost of these measures but increasing the quality of the product, and the quality and choice of the offer to consumers. [Interruption.] The fact is that I have seen a lot of solid-wall insulation where what people end up with is homes that look like they have been airlifted from East Germany. The people who do it take out all the character and just put on some uniform fascia. In fact, what people increasingly want is choice. They do not want to see character obliterated from their home. They want to see improvements. I am glad to see that we are getting that sort of innovation into the scheme.

I understand where the Opposition are coming from in their desire to retrofit homes. I understand their ambition to improve the efficiency, warmth and comfort of homes, but unless they can cost that out and be honest with the electorate about how much it will cost and how much of the burden will fall on the fuel-poor and on hard-working families, they are just a pressure group; they are not worthy of being considered the Government. We are making those choices and laying out the whole picture for the electorate. We have to balance the costs to hard-working families with the benefits to the few that will receive ECO.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

The Minister is saying that solid-wall and hard-to-treat measures cannot be economically funded through this programme. Given that this policy is his own policy, when did he become aware that it was unworkable to try to deliver those kinds of measures under the scheme?

[Gregory Barker]

No; I obviously did not explain this properly. What I am saying is that we could not do the whole lot, the 7 million or so—I think that that is the figure, off the top of my head—properties that need to be done at this price, so what we are doing, as we work with other technologies, is getting the market going, using the green deal communities subsidy and the cashback that we have announced to jump-start the market and to fund the amount that we judge we can afford. That is in order to get the market working and to bring forward innovation; and as the market gets going, so we will see the price come down. We should use Government policy as a lever to drive down the cost, just as we have used Government policy in support of feed-in-tariff technologies as a means of driving down cost; and as costs come down, that should not be passed across in inflated profits to installers. It should come across in benefits to consumers, whether they are bill payers or people who are purchasing the technology. That is at the heart of the green deal.

We are trying to move away from the model that was used under Labour, in which there was 100% subsidy. Basically, what that meant was a glorified lottery. Millions of homes were substandard, and each year a lucky few thousand would win the lottery of insulation and get every single measure fully funded. I do not begrudge those home owners or people in the rented sector who had their homes upgraded, but that is not the fairest way of doing it. Yes, there are those who are fuel-poor who will never be able to make a meaningful contribution. We must accept that, but most people who fall into this category are capable of making a meaningful contribution to something that will add considerably to the value of their home.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Thursday 27th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

This has been raised with me and I understand the work that the all-party parliamentary group is doing on it. I am sympathetic to the point that is made, but there are practical problems and costs to doing as the hon. Gentleman suggests. But I am not unsympathetic to him and, of course, I would be happy to meet.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Over half the people in this country who are in fuel poverty live in solid wall properties, and a significant number of those are people living off-grid in rural communities. Again, the changes announced to ECO in the autumn statement mean that no more than 25,000 solid wall insulation jobs a year will be done, whereas a few years ago 80,000 jobs a year were being done. If the Minister really intends to tackle fuel poverty in off-grid areas, how can he do so without an adequate solid wall insulation industry?

[Gregory Barker]

I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is scaremongering slightly about the solid wall insulation industry. The figures he referred to are the de minimis; they are not the maximum. There are other ways in which we will be installing solid wall insulation, not least working with our cash-back. I am surprised he did not mention the cash-back, as we are now offering up to £4,000 for solid wall insulation under the roll-out of the green deal. This has been very warmly welcomed by the industry, including the National Insulation Association, so perhaps he could join us in supporting the supply chain and talking up this market, rather than acting as a little bit of an Eeyore.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Thursday 28th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I am not unsympathetic to that idea, but the responsibility for building standards rests with the Department for Communities and Local Government. We have zero-carbon homes, but the key challenge for this country is the existing housing stock in which the vast majority of people live now and in which they will live for decades to come. The real challenge for us is not to build relatively few great homes but to retrofit the entire housing stock, to the benefit of everyone.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Following that answer and speculation in the press today, does the Minister accept that cutting the energy company obligation by extending the deadline for companies to meet it would punish the companies that have so far sought to meet the obligation, cause serious job losses in the insulation industry and, most important, leave vulnerable people who have been promised that they will have that work done sitting in the cold this Christmas?

[Gregory Barker]

I cannot prejudge any announcement that will be coming shortly, but it is clear to all of us that Labour stands for what is effectively a green poll tax. It is right behind regressive levies on bills; it has no interest in driving value for money. The coalition is standing up not just for green values but for green value for money. Unlike the shadow Secretary of State, we recognise that £112 on bills matters to hard-working families, and if we can get better value from green measures we will extract it. Only the coalition will ensure that we get good value as well as meeting our green targets.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Thursday 17th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I am sorry, but I did not catch all of the hon. Gentleman’s question. He raises a serious point, however, and I will be very happy to talk to him in more detail about our tariff plans. This is a Government who are taking real action to simplify tariffs, to get on the side of the consumer and to deliver better value for money after years of inactivity and inaction under the last Labour Government.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Because this Government will not stand up to the energy companies, Ministers in other Departments are clearly eyeing up the ECO scheme that funds energy-saving measures as a short-term, although counter-productive, way to reduce bills, but is not the poor running of the ECO scheme by Ministers what has made it so vulnerable? It is too bureaucratic, it is not geographically focused and it does not prioritise the genuinely fuel-poor. What is the Minister going to do to sort it out?

[Gregory Barker]

First, may I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his post? I am not sure whether he is the 10th or 11th member of the Labour party I have had opposite me on the Labour Front-Bench, but I hope he has a long stay on the Opposition Front-Bench—a very long stay indeed.

The hon. Gentleman’s criticisms of the ECO are misplaced. I am not saying it is perfect, and as we go forward we will always look to improve the scheme, but, as I said earlier, we anticipate that between 215,000 and 230,000 homes will be helped by the ECO by Christmas this year—that is nearly a quarter of a million families benefiting from warmer homes and cheaper bills. I will be very happy to organise a briefing for the hon. Gentleman, so next time he can, perhaps, come to questions a little better prepped.

Feed-in Tariffs

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and Jonathan Reynolds

Thursday 9th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I think that people should be very cautious about making a decision based on a rate of 43p. What they can do is plan with certainty on the basis of a 21p rate until July, and a stable rate of return after that.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I ask the Minister to answer the question put by my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), and tell us how many people will lose their jobs if the Government proceed with a further cut in the solar tariff to 13p in July?

[Gregory Barker]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman has misunderstood the statement. We are talking about growing the solar industry, and we expect a steady growth in the number of people who will be employed in the industry until 2015 and beyond.