UN Framework Convention on Climate Change

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and David Mowat

Thursday 18th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Gentleman makes that point far better than I did. I am not in favour of subsidies. They are a short-term means to an end, and they certainly should not be in place if there is no prospect of getting rid of them in the longer term. I have tried hon. Members too much with my tirade on that.

Let me turn to the COP negotiations, particularly the UK Government’s position and our priorities in respect of getting a global deal. Before I do so, I remind the House what we agreed in Doha. The 17th COP in Durban in 2011 was another step in the development of the UNFCCC, as was the Cancun conference the year before, but it was also a significant turning point. At that point, all the countries committed to agree a new global deal by 2015 and increase efforts to reduce emissions. Last year’s conference in Doha was the next step to make progress on both those issues.

The annual conferences should be seen not as major breakthrough points, but as steps forward. Even the annual conference in 2015, where we hope to agree the new global deal, will also include ongoing implementation decisions and perhaps further steps in the period to 2020 on how the new global deal will be implemented in detail. In that regard, our objectives at the Doha conference last year were largely achieved. We agreed a high-level work plan to negotiate the new agreement by 2015, and we rationalised the negotiation process to give space to deliver the work plan and take forward work to increase the emissions reduction effort in the meantime. Hon. Members might think that that sounds like process. It is. To negotiate a new global deal with 194 countries in three years, the process must be right. It is a challenge, but it is what we are doing.

We also made progress in further building and implementing the key elements of the UNFCCC regime, including on climate finance. I must say to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree that, far from trailing, the UK has a strong reputation on climate change, and our international reputation as a leader is rising, particularly in relation to private sector finance and investment, adaptation, technology and the rules set to measure, report and verify countries’ emissions. Getting the process right and continually building elements are vital to tackling a global problem of the scale of climate change, which is why each annual conference is a step forward.

[David Mowat]

I am listening carefully to what the Minister is saying about the COP process. One of my thoughts is that some of the time would be better spent considering abatement, as well as deals. We talked earlier about the fact that many millions of square kilometres in Russia might become usable as a result of climate change. Should we not be thinking about that globally as well?

[Gregory Barker]

We absolutely need to draw on such issues. One thing that we know for certain is that there is no silver bullet for the agenda, and we cannot afford to ignore any strand. This week, I had hoped to be in Delhi for the clean energy ministerial, which considers a range of technological solutions outside the constraints of the UNFCCC negotiating process and, to my mind, is becoming an increasingly important forum for driving the technological innovation that we need and giving the agenda much more positive spin—forgive the word. People can see tangible things to invest in that are themselves a natural good. Abatement falls into the category of things that we need to do more to consider. I do not suggest for a moment that the UNFCCC is a universal panacea, nor that risks do not attach to it, but it is our best hope of getting an overarching international framework, which in turn is our best hope of driving progress at a global level.

I said that the UK is an internationally renowned leader in climate finance. In Doha, the UK demonstrated that it was on track to deliver our £1.5 billion fast-start pledge by the end of 2012, and as the hon. Member for Brent North said, we have delivered it. We also set out for our developing country partners what the UK climate finance contribution will be in the period to 2015.

However, the key thing—we are good at this globally, and we have a strong representation—is to make the point that public finance can only go so far. We cannot push British taxpayers—or, come to that, any other taxpayers—to keep increasing the amount of public contribution. Public finance, like subsidy, is there to catalyse private sector interventions. We are seeing increasing private sector interest in scaling up investments, so I think there is a realistic possibility of meeting the pledge made at Copenhagen to mobilise the $100 billion a year from developed economies into climate measures in developing economies, not principally from the public sector or the pockets of taxpayers in developed economies, but from mobilised private sector sources that see the opportunity to make returns on attractive clean energy and climate mitigation solutions. On that point, I bring my speech to a close and thank the Committee for its report.

Feed-in Tariffs Scheme

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and David Mowat

Thursday 24th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Gentleman should understand that I am not using consumers’ money—that is what it is: subsidy that comes directly from consumers and consumer bills—to send signals or to play politics. The tariff needs to reflect the genuine underlying costs of installing solar. That was totally missing from the scheme we inherited; it is now at the core of the new tariff framework. As a result of the particularly strong falls in the costs of smaller systems, we are able to set a tariff that accurately reflects, as far as we can, the return of around 6% that we think is sensible and makes it attractive for people with the right roof to install solar.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that even after today’s changes, solar will be the most heavily subsidised form of low-carbon electricity generation? When will it reach the same cost status as other forms of low-carbon generation, and when could it reach grid parity?

[Gregory Barker]

It is not the most highly subsidised form, although it is one of them. It is certainly true that, per unit of electricity generated, the domestic rate of 16.5p is still substantially more than the rate given to onshore, or indeed offshore, wind, for example. The really exciting thing is the speed at which we anticipate the costs continuing to fall. Using a crystal ball, particularly in the Chamber of the House of Commons, is never a very good idea, but I think that industry experts are increasingly saying that we can reach grid parity by the end of the decade, and many others say that it could come a lot sooner. That is why I am determined that, unlike under the previous Government, when it was treated as a cottage industry for anoraks, solar will be a major part of our energy strategy.

Feed-in Tariffs

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and David Mowat

Thursday 9th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

First, we are not subsidising nuclear power. Secondly, we are introducing a very dynamic system of tariffs that I think other countries will now try to copy. I think that rather than being the slow man in Europe in renewable deployment, we shall be in the fast lane.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

The Minister will be aware that in the last year of the previous Government, we were 25th out of 27 European countries in the use of renewables. I note his target of 20 GW, which seems quite heroic. Can he confirm that meeting it would put us at the top of the league and not in the relegation zone position he inherited?

[Gregory Barker]

The Secretary of State is in Cumbria today to open the world’s largest offshore wind farm, which will help to push us up the table, and I certainly believe that solar has the potential to push us higher still. Whether that will take us to the top—given the progress being made in Europe, and the severe disadvantage we inherited owing to Labour’s record in government—I do not know, but all I can say is that things are going to get better.

Feed-in Tariffs

Debate between Lord Barker of Battle and David Mowat

Monday 31st October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. The danger was that solar, which was already taking more than 90% of the feed-in tariff budget, would take the whole lot. There are a lot of other micro-technologies out there that I want to see supported, such as micro-hydro, micro-combined heat and power, small-scale wind and small-scale biomass technologies. There are lots of different technologies that we need to come into the system and that also need fair funding. There are, of course, opportunities in the comprehensive reviews to look at the support for other tariffs, and we may even consider raising them where they act as an insufficient incentive to bring on those other technologies.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

The Minister may be aware of a recent research paper produced by the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology, which estimates that solar produces three times as much carbon per kWh as other renewable technologies such as wind and nuclear. Why are we subsidising solar more than the others?