Welfare Expenditure

Debate between Lord Balfe and Baroness Sherlock

Thursday 15th October 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Balfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the Office for Budget Responsibility’s forecast that welfare expenditure will reach £407 billion by 2030–31.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Sherlock) (Lab)]

My Lords, the Budget on 28 October will set out the latest forecast on government spending, including social security. This Government are prioritising welfare reform, putting work and opportunity at the centre. Our system should support people to get into work and get on in work, while ensuring that those who cannot work get the support they need. We have already introduced significant reforms through the Universal Credit Act 2025 and invested in employment support, while the Timms review and the Milburn review are considering further changes to ensure that the system is sustainable and focused on helping people who can work get into employment.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

I thank the Minister for her reply. This is not a problem of one party, but the fact of the matter is that over the last 15 years, welfare expenditure seems to have run completely out of control. It is now increasing at a rate that, frankly, is not affordable in the long run. Will the Government try to cut back on expenditure and find ways of getting people off benefits rather than piling more and more people on to benefits?

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord and I agree on one thing, which is that we have a shared objective—that all those who can work, should work. The job of the state is to make that possible, to give them the support they need and to help them get into jobs, and that is exactly what we are doing. We are investing £2.5 billion in the youth guarantee and expanding the growth and skills levy. We have already rebalanced universal credit to make sure that the incentives are in the right place, so that people are moving into work and are better off in work. We are overhauling jobcentres so that they are places where you go to sign up for work. We are investing in personalised work programmes for those who have health and skills challenges. I absolutely agree with the noble Lord, and that is exactly what this Government are doing.

Working-age Welfare System

Debate between Lord Balfe and Baroness Sherlock

Tuesday 1st September 2026 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Sherlock) (Lab)]

So, no pressure then. My Lords, the Government are prioritising welfare reform, putting work and opportunity at the centre. Our system should support people to get into work and get on in work, while ensuring that those who cannot work get the support that they need. The Milburn and Timms reviews are looking across the social security system and will publish their final reports in the autumn. We will work across government to respond to their recommendations; in the meantime, we have a range of initiatives to support individuals to get into work.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. The situation that we are in today is not a Labour or a Conservative one; it is one that we have drifted into. Every day, we read in the newspapers about there not being enough money to go round. As a previous Prime Minister said, if you do not have money, you cannot spend it. Will the Government help by looking at ways in which the public sector welfare bill can be trimmed?

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government are absolutely looking at how we can reform our social security system. It simply is not fit for purpose and it needs work. The noble Lord will know that we are in the middle of two vital reviews: into youth unemployment, led by Alan Milburn, and into the future of personal independence payment, led by my colleague Stephen Timms. In the meantime, we are taking action across the field, investing in support for young people, rebalancing universal credit to encourage people into work, guaranteeing disabled people the right to try, overhauling job centres and building personalised work programmes. We are determined to get this right.

Sickness Benefits: In-person Interviews

Debate between Lord Balfe and Baroness Sherlock

Wednesday 10th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Balfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they plan to reinstate in-person interviews for all applicants for sickness benefits.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Sherlock) (Lab)]

My Lords, we already undertake a number of face-to-face health assessments for people applying for sickness benefits. However, as announced in the Pathways to Work Green Paper, we are planning to increase the number of face-to-face assessments while preserving alternative health assessment channels in order to meet the specific needs of people who require a different channel, for example, as a reasonable adjustment.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. This problem goes back a long time. I saw in the Times on 28 June that assessors in the department are apparently paid a bonus on interview numbers—the higher the number, the higher their bonus. This may or may not be reasonable but, at a time when there is a need to reduce expenditure on benefits and we know that in-person interviews tend to lead to a stricter application of the rules, would the Minister consider reintroducing in-person interviews before new benefits are awarded or existing benefits are confirmed?

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, face-to-face assessments were stopped during Covid, as they clearly could not happen on public health grounds. They resumed in mid-2021, but the fact is that the levels have been left far too low. In the middle of last year, just 7% of assessments were face to face across PIP and the work capability assessment. That said, the assumption that the benefit bill will automatically come down if we change everything to face to face is not straightforward, based on the available evidence. I assure the noble Lord that, as he may know, in our Pathways to Work Green Paper, we committed to doing more face-to-face assessments while preserving alternative health assessment channels, because those who will not be able to do that will need a reasonable adjustment and another alternative. We will increase them as fast as possible and do it in the right way in order to make sure that we can recruit enough people and provide a good service. I am pleased to tell the noble Lord that that is our plan.

European Social Charter

Debate between Lord Balfe and Baroness Sherlock

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, if the noble Viscount is talking about the additional protocol, I should say that the UK is one of a majority of about two-thirds of states which are party to the European Social Charter that have not adopted the additional protocol. I expect he will know that, having done my job until about 20 minutes ago. It is not because we have any objection to engaging with social partners, but because we regard the current system, in which reports are made by national Governments indicating their compliance with the provisions of the charter, to be adequate.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, will the Minister commit the Government to work towards ratifying? It really is time to get this ratified. We must recognise that a prosperous society is based on working between trade unions and employers.