North Korea: Human Rights

Lord Bach Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd July 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, the House again owes a debt to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, not just for obtaining this debate, but for the extraordinary work he has done in relation to North Korea for many years—often in association with the noble Baroness, Lady Cox. Without him, the public, Parliament and—dare I say—Government would be much less well informed than they are. He has raised this issue up the agenda, where it should and must be.

Reading the commission’s report was unlike reading any other report I can remember. In clear, reasoned and judicious terms, it sets out what the horror of being a citizen of North Korea today involves. Life in North Korea would be a classic case of dystopia, except that it is not imaginary. It is real. George Orwell’s magnificent imagination, which created Oceania in the wonderful novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, perhaps gets closest to it, but by comparison Oceania seems positively liberal.

In short, the report is a shocking read and noble Lords in this debate with much more expertise than me have spoken of their response, and it is difficult to say anything original or new. As has been pointed out, the challenge is how to respond to such a regime. Of course, engagement is the right course, difficult as it is in practice, provided—and this is a big proviso—that we never leave behind human rights issues. That is why our diplomatic presence in North Korea is to be welcomed. It is also why the work of the British Council—here I again declare my interest as chair of the British Council All-Party Parliamentary Group—is to be admired and encouraged. It was good to read the speech made by the Minister’s colleague, the right honourable Hugo Swire, in a debate in another place on North Korea on 13 May when he said that,

“through the British Council and educational immersion programmes, we have provided thousands of North Koreans with their first access to a foreigner and an understanding of British culture and values”.—[Official Report, Commons, 13/5/14; col. 236WH.]

It is also why it is right for noble Lords today to have been pressing, in a proper and appropriate way, for the BBC to set up broadcasts to the Korean peninsula. If ever there were a people who needed to hear the World Service and for whom the World Service was appropriate, it is surely the North Koreans. However, we must never not talk about human rights.

In a major debate in your Lordships’ House on 21 November last the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, made an important point when discussing how to respond generally to human rights abuses:

“In considering how Britain should respond to human rights abuses, I suggest that one mistake we need to avoid is looking at the issue principally, or even solely, in the context of our bilateral relationship with the country in question. However, Britain’s influence and leverage are unlikely to be decisive nowadays. All too often we have seen how easy it is for the country in question to punish us for our temerity and play us off against other countries which have been less assertive”.—[Official Report, 21/11/13; col. 1107.]

Human rights abuses are legion in North Korea and many undoubtedly constitute crimes against humanity. Of course the British Government must have a bilateral relationship with North Korea, as they must with all countries, but surely the UN Human Rights Council, the General Assembly of the UN and the Security Council of the UN are the key bodies to work through in combating these abuses. Do the Government agree with that sentiment?

Given the totally negative attitude of the North Korean Government, the remarkable Michael Kirby and the other members of the commission of inquiry have produced a full and devastating report. Whichever section of it one reads, I am afraid that the same deeply depressing verdict is overwhelming. Whether it is about abductions, freedom of thought, expression and religion; or about discrimination or violations of freedom of movement and residence; or the deeply shocking violations of the right to food and the equally shocking section on arbitrary detentions, torture, executions and prison camps, there is little or no comfort to be found. It is a very bleak picture indeed. However, at its end the report makes what I believe to be sensible recommendations. It points out the need for those responsible to be held to judicial account and, in its last recommendation, it calls for the UN and the states involved in the Korean War to convene a high-level political conference to consider and ratify a final, peaceful settlement of that war. That is a brave—some might even say a courageous—recommendation but it is also one which demonstrates that, even after hearing the appalling evidence about the regime, the authors of the report are determined to keep a light shining in the massive gloom that prevails. If they can keep that light shining, surely it is our duty to do so, too.

Gaza

Lord Bach Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, I understand the strength of feeling about this matter not just in this House but across the country. It is for that reason that we have been asking for a de-escalation. There is, of course, some hope this morning. Noble Lords will be aware that there has been a five-hour humanitarian ceasefire which was negotiated by the United Nations. We hope that that will form the basis of further discussions later today.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, has been asking her Question and the Minister has replied a precious five-hour ceasefire has been in force. Many noble Lords will have seen the video recording of the unspeakable deaths of the four innocent Palestinian boys playing on a beach. They will also have seen the human misery at the funeral of a 37 year-old Israeli who was, equally unspeakably, killed by a Hamas rocket. Does the Minister agree that the world will find it difficult to understand how a five-hour ceasefire can be agreed, but not a longer and stronger ceasefire that stops this horror?

[Baroness Warsi]

Of course, my Lords; unfortunately that is the complexity of the Middle East peace process, and of the situation that has existed there for many, many decades. There is nobody in this country who could be unmoved by the tragic deaths that we are seeing as a result of this conflict. As a mother, of course I feel for the death of any child. As I have said before at this Dispatch Box, it is not the natural order to bury your children; the natural order is for our children to bury us. The deaths on both sides are of course tragic events. It is for that reason that this matter has to be de-escalated, and we have to get back to the negotiating table.

Gaza

Lord Bach Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement of her right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary in another place. The spiral of violence that has engulfed Gaza, southern Israel and the West Bank in recent days is bringing terrible suffering to innocent people. Of course the firing of rockets into Israel by Gaza-based militants is rightly condemned by all people of good will. No Government on earth would tolerate such attacks on their citizens, and we recognise Israel’s right to defend itself. In recent days, nearly 1,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza at Israel. At least three Israelis have been seriously injured and there have been other injuries as well.

However, the Foreign Secretary was right to point out that since the start of the Israeli military operation in Gaza only seven days ago, more than 170 Palestinians have been killed and thousands more have been injured. As the Statement said, the United Nations has reported that a large number of those killed, over 80%, were civilians, and a third of those killed were children.

Although this conflict cannot and must not be reduced simply to a ledger of casualties, the scale of the suffering in Gaza today must be fully and frankly acknowledged by all sides. The truth is, of course, that the life of a Palestinian child is worth no less than the life of an Israeli child. Every life is equal, irrespective of religion and nationality. The Foreign Secretary has rightly condemned the horrific kidnap and murder of three Israeli teenagers and the burning alive of a Palestinian teenager. These were truly shocking events but, while those barbaric acts seem the proximate cause of the latest spiral of violence, the underlying cause for this latest crisis is surely the failure over decades to achieve a two-state solution for the two peoples. Does the Minister agree?

The House will remember our debates in 2008-09 and 2012 on what today seems grimly familiar: in Gaza, Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09 and Operation Pillar of Defense in 2012. The same pattern seems to be repeating itself. In 2008-09, Israel declared a unilateral ceasefire; in 2012 the Egyptians brokered one. On both occasions it was clear that the conflict between Israel and Hamas cannot be solved through force of arms alone. I am sure that Her Majesty’s Government recognise that there can be no military solution to this conflict. Does the Minister agree that the scale of the suffering in Gaza, adding to the effects of the continuing blockade, only serves to fuel hatred and embolden Israel’s enemies?

The further isolation of the Palestinian Authority in the face of military action weakens its own domestic legitimacy. Surely that ultimately makes negotiations harder and peace more difficult to achieve. Today, the risk of all-out escalation in the conflict and the threat of a ground offensive action are very real indeed. However, of course—and this should constantly be said—they are preventable if Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel. As Her Majesty’s Opposition, we are clear not only on the need for an immediate ceasefire but that a full-scale ground invasion would be both a disaster for the people of Gaza and a strategic error for Israel. It is vital that our Government, along with allies, now make that position clear to the Israeli Government in the crucial hours and days ahead. I am sure that the Minister agrees with that.

We of course welcome the statements made by the United Nations Security Council on Saturday calling for a ceasefire. The Foreign Secretary spoke of Her Majesty’s Government being willing to consider further action at the UN Security Council if a ceasefire was not agreed. Can the Minister set out what sort of further action might be involved? I am sure that we are all agreed that the United Nations has to take a forthright role in seeking to bring the recent violence to an end.

There have been calls for the United Nations Secretary-General to travel to the region as a mediator between the two sides. Do Her Majesty’s Government support such a call? We all know from bitter experience over many years that a spiral of violence that reinforces the insecurity of the Israelis and the humiliation of the Palestinians leads only to further suffering. For Israel, permanent occupation, blockades and repeated incursions into occupied lands will make peace and ultimately security much harder, not easier, to achieve. Alas, it appears to be not a strategy for peace, more a recipe for conflict.

Of course we welcome all the humanitarian efforts that the Foreign Secretary has set out and that are being made by the Government on behalf of this country. It is very good that Britain plays such a major role. We also welcome the good news concerning the departure of British nationals and Palestinian dependants from Gaza. However, do we not all know after all these years that a humanitarian response, while absolutely vital, is not sufficient? That is obvious from the past few days, and from Israel’s overwhelming military might. I repeat: Hamas, weakened today by al-Sisi’s rise in Egypt and differences with Iran over Syria, can itself revert the risk of an imminent ground invasion by stopping the rocket attacks.

Israel needs more than just tactics for winning the next round of war. It needs a strategy for building peace. This is a time and a crisis that demands not revenge but statesmanship motivated by justice. Only politics and a negotiated solution offer a way forward to peace.

European Commission: UK Member

Lord Bach Excerpts

Thursday 10th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

Mr Clegg is an incredibly effective Deputy Prime Minister and a Cabinet colleague for whom I have great respect. If he were to take on that role, I know that he would be deeply missed at Cabinet.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, if I were Prime Minister, I would want to avoid a by-election. Does the noble Baroness agree?

[Baroness Warsi]

The important thing is that we make sure that we appoint a good Commissioner who does a good job in Europe. All the other factors are secondary.

Sri Lanka

Lord Bach Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, the setting up of the United Nations investigative team is very good, if rather belated, news. However, there are reports that the Sri Lankan Government are refusing to co-operate with the investigation. Will the Minister comment on that? The recent deaths of three Sri Lankan Muslims and one Tamil at the hands of the Buddhist nationalist group Bodu Bala Sena is a worrying development. What representations are Her Majesty’s Government making to the Sri Lankan Government about this particular outrage?

[Baroness Warsi]

We have encouraged the Sri Lankan Government to co-operate with the UN human rights commissioner’s international investigation, and we have seen some of the statements that have come out of Sri Lanka which suggest that the position is otherwise. However, we believe that the UN’s independent investigation has a strong team. As the noble Lord will be aware, people such as Martti Ahtisaari, Silvia Cartwright and Asma Jahangir—the phenomenal human rights campaigner in Pakistan—have been appointed to this investigating committee. We hope that, despite the Sri Lankan Government’s not co-operating, the committee will produce a good and strong international investigation. As for the recent tensions, of course we are concerned about the actions of Bodu Bala Sena. Our representatives at the British High Commission in Sri Lanka met with the group last year to raise our concerns in relation to the anti-Muslim violence. But they have met also, in relation to other minorities, with the Sri Lankan Government.

Middle East Peace Process

Lord Bach Excerpts

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the reply from another place. Every Member of your Lordships’ House will be saddened by this awful news. The suffering of the families will, of course, be unbearable and the nation of Israel and millions more around the world will be in mourning. I ask the noble Baroness three short questions. First, will she set out in a little more detail what contacts there have been with the Israeli and Palestinian Governments in the past 24 hours? Secondly, what assessment have our Government made of the impact these latest tensions are likely to have on the Palestinian unity Government and the Israeli Government’s policy towards them? Lastly, do the Government agree—I am sure that they do—with the United Nations Under-Secretary-General Jeffrey Feltman that both Israelis and Palestinians should exercise maximum restraint to prevent tensions escalating further?

European Union: United Kingdom MEPs

Lord Bach Excerpts

Thursday 26th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, we keep the Government’s engagement with the European Parliament under constant review and we consider all upcoming events. We engage with our MEPs in a number of ways. That may be by direct engagement with Ministers, through official engagement and, of course, through UKREP. In relation to access to Parliament, the decision not to extend pass access rights to UK MEPs was considered by the Administration Committee during the previous Parliament. As I understand it, the decision was made due to pressures on facilities and the absence of reciprocal arrangements. In March 2011, the Administration Committee decided that as these conditions had not changed, the policy of not extending access rights to MEPs should continue.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, Conservative Members of the European Parliament have recently allied themselves with the Danish People’s Party and the Finns Party, which are both by any standards extreme right-wing organisations that are shunned by mainstream centre-right parties in the European Parliament. David Cameron himself shunned them in 2009, but not in 2014. What has changed the Prime Minister’s mind and how does this new alliance strengthen Britain’s negotiating hand in Brussels?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, the noble Lord will understand that there are a number of political parties that form part of the alliances and blocs at European level. Indeed, he will also know the Conservative Party’s recent response, concerning that alliance, in relation to the parties in Germany. He will be aware that we take a very serious view of extremism, whether domestically or in relation to political parties with which we engage overseas.

Iraq

Lord Bach Excerpts

Wednesday 25th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, we very much welcome this debate and congratulate the Government on arranging it. Of course, it is unfortunate that it is being taken as last business, but what it may lack in quantity it certainly makes up for in quality. From this side, we thank all speakers for their contributions, and I give my personal thanks to the Minister for setting up a briefing day for the Opposition Front Bench. I am very grateful to her.

I will concentrate on Iraq, and specifically Iraq today. It will come as no surprise that in general Her Majesty’s Opposition agree with the Government’s policy as it has emerged as a result of the present crisis in Iraq. We have some questions and some proposals—that is the job of an opposition in a functioning democracy—but, for the moment, we are happy to give our support to the general direction of government policy.

We of course condemn ISIL, whose medieval barbarism, mixed with a certain sophistication in the use of modern technology, is deeply offensive to all civilised people. Its ruthlessness is shocking and it must not prevail. However, it is incumbent on all of us to understand what we are dealing with—the context in which ISIL has made its advances and its weaknesses and strengths—before we resolve how best to counter it.

Things are far from clear—it is not always easy to know the facts. That is certainly not to question the bravery of individual journalists, and I hope that some other noble Lords may have been fortunate enough to see the video on Twitter of the BBC journalist Paul Wood and his cameraman under fire for many minutes in Jalula, the fire coming of course from ISIL. One can only wonder at the journalists’ courage, but of course much remains unclear.

A good example of that is the misreporting of the extremely influential Ayatollah Sistani when he spoke on 13 June. This was at first described as a call to arms for Shia to fight Sunni. This interpretation—hardly surprisingly, given the significance of the ayatollah—swept the world’s airwaves, yet as soon as a translation appeared, it was clear that the call to arms was to save Iraq as a country. It discouraged foreign fighters, and it called for self-restraint and for people to refrain from armed activity outside the state’s legal framework —an obvious reference to militias. In other words, it was a political, not a sectarian, reaction, summed up in the following quote from that event. The ayatollah strongly advised Muslims to,

“steer clear from sectarian and … nationalistic discourse that is of detriment to Iraq’s national unity”.

Listening to British Iraqis last night at a meeting that had been arranged by four noble Lords from around the House, the message being relayed in speech after speech, whether made by a Shia, a Sunni or a Christian—there was a Christian Assyrian there—or even by a Kurd was the same. Very briefly, it was this: extremism was unacceptable and ISIL must be fought in order to save Iraq. That was put best by someone who said, “This is a war of all Iraqis against ISIL”.

Of concern, of course, to all is the fact that British youths have been persuaded in some cases to fight in Syria and, now, in Iraq. Our response, as has been made clear around the House this evening, must be clear and resolute. It represents a real danger to the kind of tolerant, diverse society that we all want to live in. Given the article in the Financial Times last Monday, the emphasis of the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister on this, and the Minister’s department’s key role in collecting names and other vital tasks, why is there a 50% cut from £30 million per year to £15 million a year in the FCO’s counterterrorism unit? The Financial Times referred to 35 out of 85 staff posts. Surely if ever there was a time not to make that particular cut, it is now. Will the Minister comment on that in her summing up?

Whether the response to ISIL is sectarian or political, or whether it is impossible to make such a division, what is clear is the significance of the holy sites within Iraq’s borders, currently threatened by ISIL. A statement published by ISIL itself explicitly states its intention to reach the cities of Karbala and Najaf, which are the homes of extremely holy shrines. These sites are respected by the Iraqi community as a whole, and are the epicentre of the Shia community around the world. Any serious action by ISIS to actively reach these places will undoubtedly have serious consequences, not only in Iraq and the Middle East, of course, but for Muslims in all corners of the world. That could result not only in a sectarian war on a large scale in Iraq but the military intervention of other countries. Here, of course, one thinks of Iran which has itself vowed to protect these holy sites. This whole right to freedom of religion is part of our duty to safeguard. It also includes the protection of places of worship which are in danger. We have all heard of reports detailing the destruction of mosques, churches and heritage sites in ISIS-controlled areas.

We know that while ISIL may be an extreme Sunni movement it does not enjoy universal Sunni support. While ruthless force of arms by ISIL, linked with the severe disillusion with the Maliki Government, has certainly combined to make ISIL’s advance much easier, it is hard to believe videos, for example, that show ISIL massacring police in Tikrit. Many of those police were Sunnis. It is also hard to believe the basic enmity that exists—this was said in the debate—between Baathists and ISIL, seemingly friends now. Surely that must result in a turning at some stage against ISIL and its ways. One must ask the question: if this is a majority Sunni view why did so many hundreds of thousands of Sunnis flee when ISIL came to do its worst?

The world is waiting for this new Government in Baghdad—there is no doubt about that—following the elections in April. The results, as we have heard, were certified by the supreme court. This time it will not be acceptable to the Iraqi people to have a long delay of eight or 10 months, as in 2010, before the Government are formed. Prime Minister Maliki’s comments today are disappointing. It is essential that whoever leads the Government must ensure that immediate steps are taken to be more inclusive and more sympathetic to minorities in Iraq. It is not just a question of sharing out titles to individuals for particular jobs; it is much more a driving sense of purpose that Iraq is worth saving and that its diversity should be a strength, not a weakness.

This is a critical moment. We must stand ready to continue humanitarian assistance of course, and to offer advice certainly. To argue that it is none of Britain’s business is crass and wrong. Not only are some British citizens involved in both Syria and Iraq, there are thousands of Iraqi British who, we must never forget, live and work here. Above all, of course, are the consequences for this country and the wider world of a barbaric, ruthless organisation such as ISIL being allowed to succeed.

Iraq: Mosul

Lord Bach Excerpts

Tuesday 17th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

I am not sure about any direct funding. I am not sure whether we have that information or whether it is something that I could talk about here at the Dispatch Box. The noble Lord will have seen reports, as will other Members of the House, of the amount of money and gold that was in the vaults of the banks that were subsequently taken over by these extremist groups. That in itself is a worrying aspect of the finance that they now hold.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, Ban Ki-moon was surely right when he said earlier today:

“There is a real risk of further sectarian violence on a massive scale, within Iraq and beyond its borders”.

Of course, that is an appalling enough prospect, but the humanitarian crisis that will undoubtedly follow will require additional humanitarian support. Can the Minister confirm that any request made to the United Kingdom will be considered and acted on properly?

[Baroness Warsi]

I can, my Lords. One of the great achievements of this Government is their commitment to international development, which includes humanitarian work. I can confirm that a team from the Department for International Development arrived in the north of Iraq on 12 June to assess the situation, and on 14 June the International Development Secretary announced the £3 million emergency humanitarian assistance to which I referred in my initial Answer. That is something that we will keep under review. My right honourable friend the International Development Secretary updated Cabinet colleagues about that earlier today: it is a matter that she keeps under constant review.

Palestine

Lord Bach Excerpts

Monday 16th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

Of course, ultimately peace will be achieved only if there is a unified authority in the Palestinian territories to which we can speak—a unified organisation that represents both Gaza and the West Bank—as long as it abides by the quartet principles. I can stand at this Dispatch Box and give a list of things that the Israelis are alleged to have done and a list of things that the Palestinians are alleged to have done, but I am not sure whether that blame game is going to take us any further. What I am clear about is that a Palestinian life and an Israeli life are equally important. It is therefore right that what we do respects the sanctity of life, and the basic human rights that people require whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, is it Her Majesty’s Government’s intention to work with the new Palestinian unity Government? Presuming that it is, could the House be told what specific steps our Government are taking in that regard?

[Baroness Warsi]

As I said earlier, we have recognised the technocratic Government; we feel that they provide an opportunity to take matters further. We give great credit to President Abbas, who has made sure that the technocratic Government have been set up in a way that is acceptable to the international community and are an organisation of government that we can work with. With regard to the UK’s approach, the noble Lord will of course be aware that we have been one of the biggest supporters of ensuring that a future Palestinian state is viable, not only through the work that we have been doing in establishing and supporting institutions but in relation to the humanitarian work on the ground with both financial support and expertise. We will continue to do that, because we are firmly committed to ensuring that there is a viable Palestinian state when that moment arises.