Foreign Affairs

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, I join in the tributes to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, for his opening and his many distinguished years of service—may he continue in his current position—and to the energy that the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, as Secretary of State, has brought to the present process and this debate.

I want to focus, as the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, did, on the means rather than the end. Like many noble Lords here, I was in Ukraine three weeks ago—for about a week, in my case—in Kyiv and Odesa. I was there, coincidentally, at the same time as the head of the European foreign service, and we managed, with some of his staff, accidentally to be in the same bomb shelter at the same time, which gives one an opportunity to talk to people. One of the things that came across was the determination of Europe to protect Ukraine from defeat—to support it. However, in conversations with senior politicians in Ukraine, as well as the most senior religious leaders in that very religious country, the question they put was not just what the West intends and what the UK intends—their warm words about the UK were very striking—but what were the means to those ends. You do not win wars by good intentions.

I will not go further on that except to say that the integrated review and the refreshed integrated review talk extensively about ends, but they do not talk at all, or not very much, about means. This is the question that has to be put to government but will be much better handled by the noble Lords and noble and gallant Lords, with infinitely more expertise than me, who are here today.

Moving on from that, I want to talk about something that is a major focus, and has been for many years, in the Anglican Communion. I remind noble Lords that the average Anglican is a woman in her 30s in sub-Saharan Africa, on less than $4 a day, with a 50:50 chance of being in a place of conflict or persecution. The question of avoiding war and making peace applies not only, obviously, in Ukraine and Gaza but, according to the UN’s recent figures, in at least 52 other places around the world. Over the last 10 years, in the 165 countries in which we have Anglican churches, divided into 42 provinces, I have visited all those provinces. I have spent much of that time with people involved in conflicts, seeking to build them up, whether it is in northern Mozambique with training from the UN or other places. It is very striking that the impact of peace- building is not only a primary command of Christ in the Bible—

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God”—


but fundamental to the national interests of this country.

Our leadership, historically and today, in areas of conflict brings us enormous distinction, at huge cost. Our leadership in peacebuilding is something we have the capacity to do: it is hard won and brings long-term prosperity and opportunity. Peace brings development; development brings trade; trade is to our advantage and brings more development. Our soft power assets in this country are enormous, especially when combined with the hard power within our Armed Forces to contribute to the necessary tough side of peacemaking.

We see with Gaza and the horrendous events I saw within a very few days of 7 October—I was in east Jerusalem—the terrible human impact and the almost impossible task of bringing peace in the midst of the sound of the guns. Once the guns begin, peacemaking becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible.

The Foreign Office has an excellent unit, pithily named—I am sorry to have to reach for my notes as I can never get this right; I am sure the Secretary of State could whip it off—the negotiations and peace processes team in the Office for Conflict, Stabilisation and Mediation. I will call it peacemaking for short. It is staffed, like the whole Foreign Office and our brilliant Diplomatic Service, with people of courage, determination, huge experience and great wisdom—small in number and with very little money.

If we are to talk about the use of aid, as the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, did so effectively, we must look at where that aid is best used. Putting it properly to the service of peace has a far higher return than any other possible use of it. It saves money on fighting wars and on diplomatic intervention at a time when diplomatic intervention is virtually vain.

This debate will cover so many areas and has so many wise Members of this House participating that I do not wish to go on any longer. I simply hope that the Foreign Secretary, when summing up, will speak about peacemaking. In the refreshed integrated review, the word “reconciliation” does not appear and, when I did a search, “peace” appeared four times in 114 pages. I may be wrong; it may have gone up and I did not notice. Two of those references are in the context of nuclear war.

Will the Government enhance the work of the peacemakers in the Foreign Office? Will they encourage working with the third sector and local groups? Will they bring in the coalitions—for instance, in the south Caucasus and other areas that we forget so easily—which will mean that we in the West are not only resilient, united, determined and courageous but making peace in a way that opens a future for the country and for ourselves?

Palestinian State: UK Recognition

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I absolutely understand where my noble friend is coming from. I just say to him that of course it is not rewarding Hamas. Hamas does not believe in a two-state solution: it believes in the destruction of Israel. My point is that the whole point of a two-state solution is to create long-term, sustainable peace. I think the last 30 years have shown that we will not solve this problem without a solution that gives dignity and security to the Palestinian people as well as vital security to Israel. I say, as a strong friend of Israel, that this is the right approach and we should pursue it.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, I welcome very strongly the continued emphasis by the Secretary of State on the two-state solution, and his condemnation of the Hamas terrorist group and his call for the liberation of hostages, as was echoed in a statement this morning from the Bishops. But it is not only in Gaza that we are seeing tragedy; we are seeing it in the West Bank, where it is almost forgotten that very large numbers of Palestinians have been killed by people who live in illegal settlements. One of the countries most affected by that is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. First, what support are His Majesty’s Government giving to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, given its vulnerability and its significant responsibility as guardian of the holy places? If it comes under significant pressure, that would widen the conflict appallingly and dramatically. Secondly, what are the practicalities for Jordan in preparing for or aiding a two-state solution, where the flow of refugees towards it—and it has taken something like half its population in refugees—would be a very threatening process for its destabilisation?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I thank the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury for his question. First, he is absolutely right to say that we should focus on what is happening in the West Bank as well as Gaza. It is a chilling statistic that since 7 October, 96 Palestinian children have been killed in the West Bank. There have been a series of very worrying developments and disturbances. That is why the Government are focused on this. Only yesterday, we announced for the first time some sanctions against violent settlers who are carrying out criminal acts in the West Bank.

The most reverend Primate also asked, rightly, about what we are doing to help Jordan. First, in terms of the incredible work Jordan does in looking after refugees, we have given a huge amount of aid and assistance to help it with the job that it has done. As he says, the crucial thing is to work with the Jordanians, as we are, towards the two-state solution, in which they can play a very big part. A crucial thing that needs to be sorted out is how you move from the current Palestinian Authority, which has a number of issues and difficulties, to a new technocratic Government who would work across the Palestinian territories. The Jordanians can play a big role in helping to bring that about.

Israel/Gaza

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his eloquent and powerful opening speech. In it, he set out the complexity of the situation that is being faced. One of the great dangers of such complexity is that we seek to find simple answers and there are none.

In a recent trip—I got back on Sunday—to Jerusalem, meeting large numbers from both sides, it was perfectly obvious that there were a number of factors that we need to bear in mind. One was the raised prestige of the United Kingdom, owing to its solid support; tribute is owing to the Foreign Office, to the Foreign Secretary, to the Ministers with him, and to the Prime Minister for his determination and courage. Tribute is also owed to the leader of the Opposition, who has set such a clear example of cross-party support.

Secondly, the innumerable deaths on 7 October and the taking of over 200 hostages have created a situation of trauma in Israel that is hard to exaggerate. I am very glad to hear that the Foreign Office has been meeting with relatives. On Sunday morning, I spent time with families who had lost eight members of their family; they talked about the first pogrom on Israeli territory and their absolute shock. I spoke with a family whose son had been killed on 7 October—a British-Israeli soldier called Yosef. He had been married—and I spoke with his wife at length—for one year and three days. He gave his life against overwhelming odds, as wave after wave of terrorists sought to kill people in one of the kibbutzes. I wonder whether the Government are considering—given that he was a British citizen—what official recognition of his supreme courage can be offered. As well as that, there was—although huge anger—an absence of hate from those families. That dignity that they are showing is the first ray of light to which I will refer in this speech, in a situation of almost unredeemed darkness. Are the Government working to ensure not only that every effort—as they have already said—is being given to negotiating the release of the hostages but that it is one effort and not a disparate set of efforts, which would reduce its effectiveness?

From there, on Friday evening and Saturday, I saw the religious leaders—the Christian leaders of the Holy Land. Two or three things were visible. First, they literally sat shoulder to shoulder, on the day after the Al-Ahli destruction, with the extraordinary Anglican Archbishop Hosam Naoum—it is an Anglican hospital —and surrounded him with their support as he spoke of the need for peace and reconciliation, with the knowledge of his friends who had died. The hospital, which I visited in 2019 and opened a section of, and which has been so badly damaged—that visible sign of unity—is a second ray of light. Will the Government consider supporting that hospital in its rebuilding—financially, not just with words?

Will they also make it clear that the Christian community is essential to the Holy Land, for the other great message I got is that they believe this may be the end of their existence, after 2,000 years? They are caught between the upper and the nether millstone.

That brings us to the Palestinians in the West Bank. The Minister made absolutely clear his horror at the huge number—over 74 when I heard on Saturday from their representatives—murdered, almost entirely unarmed, almost entirely by settlers in illegal settlements in Area C. That strengthens Hamas and weakens the Palestinian Authority. Can that be in the interests of a long-term peace?

Fourthly, we turn to that question of the objectives of the war. The hopes of peace and reconciliation are set not only after a military victory but by how that victory is achieved. The more heavy the casualties, the less chance there is of renewed peace, and Gaza has gone from level to level of violence over the last 15 years. War conducted with that aim is not fair.

The noble Lord, Lord Turnberg—or it may have been the noble Lord, Lord Campbell; both spoke so eloquently—said quite rightly that this is not a question of fairness. But there is no equivalence between Israel and Hamas. The latter is a terrorist organisation; the former is a legitimate state whose citizens since 1945 have written many of the laws of war. They know how to do this. May they be encouraged, and continue to be encouraged, by Governments around the world, by the success of David Satterfield—President Biden’s brilliant envoy—and by pressure from our Government and others, which has opened the way for more than 50 trucks to go into Gaza. That is a huge success.

My final point, though, is about the innocent sufferers. I visited two institutions on Saturday morning. One was a hospital linked to Al-Ahli, the other the Princess Basma school, 30% of whose members are deeply disabled children. The hospital cannot get children out of Gaza for chemotherapy, let alone for treatment of the wounds they have received. It cannot get children out. Can there be a corridor of sanctuary, at least on a temporary basis, to enable them to get the treatment without which they will die very rapidly? It is difficult. The call for a formal ceasefire is probably beyond hope, but can there be that humanitarian action? Can the children with autism and other extreme disabilities be allowed to come out so that they can attend school and not be in the midst of a war? What that does to them is beyond imagination.

I am well over my time; please excuse me. I want to say that the work done by our Government has been remarkable. It continues to be, but the international community must not again act disparately, with a series of Heads of State and other politicians emerging on the scene, sometimes for their own reasons. It must be a united effort with the United Nations and the ICRC. The United Nations has lost over 50 people, killed in the last two and a half weeks in Gaza. May we pay tribute to those who are taking such risks, sacrificing their lives for the future, and continue to hope that these two rays of light, of unity and of dignity, seen on both sides, may lead to peace and reconciliation before too long.

Sudan: Refugees

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Wednesday 24th May 2023 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to assist the government of South Sudan to support refugees from the conflict in Sudan.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury for his Question and for his long-term and outstanding commitment to the people of South Sudan, including on his recent visit to Juba with the Holy Father and the Moderator of the Church of Scotland.

The violence in Sudan has displaced more than 1 million people internally within the region, including approximately 73,600 people fleeing to South Sudan, where the humanitarian situation is already at crisis level. The UK Government allocated an initial £5 million, including £2 million in South Sudan, to meet the urgent needs of refugees and returnees who are fleeing the violence in Sudan. Today, the Minister for Development and Africa has announced £143 million in humanitarian aid for east Africa, including nearly £20 million for South Sudan.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

I am grateful to the Minister for his response. Given that the peace agreement in South Sudan remains extremely fragile and the Government there are at best dysfunctional, incompetent and corrupt, what other measures are the Government taking beyond humanitarian aid in order to address the situation, especially in other countries in east Africa? Will they consider seriously channelling the funds they are making available through civil society groups, especially faith groups, which tend to be more effective in that country in getting money on the ground?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The most reverend Primate is right; he should perhaps not mince his words so much in describing the Government there. The UK is pursuing every diplomatic avenue we can to bring about an end to violence, establish humanitarian corridors, which are essential, and pave the way for meaningful talks. The Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Africa have engaged on a regular basis with their counterparts in the region, including with partners in neighbouring countries—Kenya, Djibouti, South Sudan and Egypt—with the African Union and with the Intergovernmental Authority on Development. The Foreign Secretary has also engaged directly through various intermediaries with the two military leaders to press further for a cessation of hostilities, and we will continue to work with the international community in every way we can in order to push for a longer-term and more permanent end to the fighting and a return to talks on transitioning to civilian rule.

I apologise that I did not answer the most reverend Primate’s question about funnelling finance through civil society. He is absolutely right: we do not funnel money through Governments in the region; we rely increasingly on established NGOs on the ground, which are often far better placed to direct that money in a useful manner.

Climate Change in Developing Countries

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, for tabling this Question. In his travelogue, he mentioned, to my alarm, the areas for which I am directly responsible—I suppose because they could not go anywhere else—notably, the Falkland Islands, Antarctica, Sri Lanka and Bermuda; I do not know what is going to happen to Kent.

The OECD’s most recent States of Fragility report found that, in 2022, 23% of the world’s population were living in fragile contexts, often linked to climate change, but 73% of the world’s extreme poor were. This figure is projected to rise to 86% of the world’s poor on the lowest incomes by 2030. For the Anglican Communion, within 165 countries over 150 of them are affected by such changes.

Climate change is one of the three chief causes of fragility highlighted in the OECD report. Climate change is not in and of itself the driver of violent conflict; however, it is a significant force multiplier, and violent conflict is the easiest way of preventing people from taking any action on climate change by making such action impossible. Drought, flooding, food shortages, desertification, other natural disasters, and even the disappearance entirely of some land, all increase the chances of large numbers of people having to move to survive—and their movement creates conflict. In 2019 alone, 24.9 million people around the world were internally displaced by climate-related disasters; that is more than the total number of refugees in 1945.

Global faith leaders meeting at the Vatican just before COP 26 were told by the head of the IPCC that at our present rate of progress, climate change-driven migration could increase to as much as 800 million or more by 2050. Environmental peacebuilding suggests that partnerships will be required to mitigate conflict and enable the control of changes to the environment. What action are the Government taking to consider the current and future risks of climate change-driven conflict, and will they look at opportunities for environmental peacebuilding and at where reconciliation approaches might best take root between competing and conflicting groups?

The Integrated Review Refresh 2023 uses the words “peace” 14 times, “climate change” 16 times—but only once in terms of threat multiplication—and “reconciliation” zero times. In the past, the Government were committed to preventing conflict through a mediation unit set up in 2018 or thereabouts, but during and since Covid that unit has been run down to two people and gets no mention in the review. Will the Minister undertake to address this issue? We would be glad to work with him on this, using our considerable global experience and expertise. Following our introductions, the UN’s Mediation Support Unit has been mentoring and training Anglican bishop peacebuilders in northern Mozambique and is starting in South Sudan and possibly the DRC. The UK Government used to be ahead here but are now far behind in this much cheaper and more effective means of dealing with conflict than any other means.

Secondly, there is an urgent need for developing countries facing the brunt of climate change to develop resilience. For example, Malawi’s maize yields could fall by a fifth by 2050 without action, but with climate-smart policies, its production could increase by more than 700%. Kew Gardens is also developing climate change-resistant coffee for west Africa. Will the Minister outline how much money the UK contributes each year towards climate resilience in developing countries? Will he give an update on when it is likely that we will return to our 0.7% target for ODA, as promised? The deployment of the additional 0.2% on supporting developing countries to adapt in the face of rising temperatures and climate-related disasters will be far cheaper for this country in the long term than dealing with the consequences of such disasters.

Finally, for the poorest and most affected countries, it is too late to adapt to climate change. Finance for loss and damage, which was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, was agreed in principle at COP 27, but much work needs to be done to pin it down. The fund should make grants, not loans; it should be comprised of new money rather than that taken from existing or reduced pledges; and it should be allocated on the basis of need, paid for by countries that have contributed most to climate change. Will the Minister update the House on the UK’s involvement in providing finance for loss and damage and how it fits with our other funding commitments?

Overseas Development Aid: Covid-19 Vaccination

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Thursday 21st January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

Baroness Manningham-Buller. No? I call the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury [V]]

My Lords, we must welcome warmly the exceptional moral leadership in this remarkable donation to the COVAX programme, which I think is the largest of any country. However, in order to make the money work, and to follow up what the British ambassador, Julian Braithwaite, said at the WHO, we need a global vaccination campaign if we are to overcome this global pandemic. There are three particular obstructions to overcome. One relates to the use of surplus supplies of vaccine; for example, Canada has ordered more than five times what it needs for its population. The second is misinformation, mythical dangers or false stories being deliberately spread about the vaccines. Thirdly, in many parts of the countries that will need the vaccine, there are immense logistical difficulties in distributing it. To make the most of the financial leadership we have set and given our expertise, experience and success in the rollout in this country, what will the Government do to validate that gift by overcoming these three challenges?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the most reverend Primate makes some very pertinent and important points. On the issue of countries which have oversubscribed, some countries have already announced plans for that. We are not in that position, but others have announced how they will look at distribution. We would implore them to consider that the most equitable way to support that distribution is through the COVAX Facility and the AMC, for the very reasons that have been put forward; namely, that they have the most effective infrastructure and networks to allow for equitable and fast distribution of the vaccine as it is rolled out.

I take fully the most reverend Primate’s point on misinformation. At a time when people are concerned and worried, it is highly regrettable that some in the world are putting out misinformation on vaccines which have already gone through all stages of testing and have been approved. We must come together to tackle that and provide proper information.

The most reverend Primate’s point on logistics was well made. As vaccine distribution continues, we will work through our networks within the FCDO and the UN to further strengthen NGOs; for example, with training and by ensuring that front-line healthcare workers in the field in developing parts of the world are vaccinated first.

Nigeria: Religious Violence

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Monday 21st September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that this is important. I pay tribute to her work in Nigeria, and to that of others in your Lordships’ House. We condemn incidents of violence where religion is erroneously used to justify the worst of crimes and acts of terrorism and extremism. On genocide, as the noble Baroness will know, it is the UK Government’s policy not to unilaterally determine whether genocide has occurred, in line with the genocide convention. As she will know and as I have often said, this is a matter for competent courts and tribunals.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury [V]]

My Lords, like the Minister, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this issue; she is tireless and fearless in standing up for the weakest and most vulnerable. While the issues of genocide are often ones of legal terminology, the situation in Nigeria is one of large-scale killing in many areas across all communities and for a wide variety of reasons, not all of which are religious. Would the Minister say how the very large numbers of UK passport holders in Nigeria—most with dual citizenship and families here—are protected and informed of the situation? Would he also say what priority the establishment of reconciliation will get in the allocation of overseas aid in the new department?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I fully align myself with the remarks of the most reverend Primate and pay tribute to him for his tireless efforts on conflict resolution, not just in Nigeria but around the world. As he knows from our discussions, I share many of the views that he has articulated. On his specific questions, we are developing a new conflict, security and justice programme, which aims to reduce levels of violence through the development of more effective conflict-management systems, working in conjunction with key partners on the ground. On the issue of British nationals, apart from the focus on conflict management, we continue to update travel advice to inform British nationals intending to travel to Nigeria, providing, in particular, specific travel advice for different states within Nigeria.

Covid-19: Refugee Camps

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Wednesday 20th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a very important point. We have been at the forefront—he will be aware of the £744 million of UK aid funding which we have committed thus far to global efforts to combat the outbreak of Covid-19, split across three areas: building resilience in vulnerable countries, finding a vaccine and supporting the economic response. We are working with a raft of UN agencies, including the World Health Organization and UNICEF, as well as UNFPA and UNHCR, to support refugees specifically.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the Global Humanitarian Response Plan published by the UN and updated this month, which emphasises

“The importance of involving and supporting local organizations … given the key role they are playing in this crisis.”


In all areas where the world’s 70 million displaced people gather, faith groups and especially churches are often the only remaining organisations with reach from grass roots to leaders, but they are often ignored by international and relief agencies. In many cases, shortage of money and logistics hamper food distribution. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that faith-based local groups are fully involved by all international agencies in all aspects of relief, reconciliation and moral and spiritual support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, what the most reverend Primate said resonates with me. I am a strong believer in the role of faith groups, particularly in the response to Covid. Specifically, we have, for example, allocated £55 million to established agencies such as the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, as well as £20 million to international NGOs including Christian Aid. I share with noble Lords that I shall be convening a meeting of aid agencies working within the faith sector, to see what we can do in a more co-ordinated way across the world in our response to Covid-19, which will directly include faith leaders as well.

Sudan and South Sudan

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord asks for specific details. If I may, I will write on the nature of that situation. On his more general point, we are concerned about the security of aid workers because of the number of NGOs working on the ground.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the meeting in the Vatican last April of religious and political leaders from South Sudan, including the President and leading rebel and opposition groups; and of the Pope’s announcement when we met last November that he intended to make a joint visit himself, with me and a former Moderator of the Church of Scotland, at the end of March if the transitional Government had been established by that time in Juba. The period for establishing that Government runs out towards the end of February. May we have assurance that with the whole thing in the balance—and given what we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Cox—Her Majesty’s Government will apply carrot and stick vigorously, and give full attention over the next four weeks to enabling this new Government to happen solidly in Juba, including the presence of leading rebel members such as Riek Machar, to get a framework for peace?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Again, I pay tribute to the most reverend Primate for his work in South Sudan. I know this is an area close to his heart. Let me assure him that we are working closely not just with the Government but with civil society to ensure that we keep on track, and that the peace agreement between the two countries remains intact. We are supporting civil society organisations as well; for example, the UK is funding and enabling the South Sudan Council of Churches to engage in mediation. That is an important part of the reconciliation process in South Sudan, and for that matter in Sudan as well.

Freedom of Religion and Belief

Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Excerpts

Thursday 16th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for securing it and for all the work he has undertaken in this area over many years. I associate myself very closely with what he said in his very eloquent opening speech and also with the speeches of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, and the noble Lord, Lord McFall. I also pay tribute to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester. He will be much missed by this House and I will miss him enormously for the wise advice he has given me on numerous occasions.

We have already heard many examples of the horrific situations around the world where people are persecuted for their religion or for their absence of religion. I witnessed such persecution in its rawest form many times during my visits in 2013 and 2014 to the 37 other provinces of the Anglican communion. Almost half of these provinces are living under persecution; they fear for their lives every day.

I will make two points in the short time available in this debate The first is that the relationship between law and religion is invariably a delicate one. The passionately lived religious life or passionately lived humanist life of many people around the world and in this country cannot be compartmentalised within our legal and political systems. It is not good enough to say that religion is free within the law. As was eloquently pointed out by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, religion defines us—it is the fundamental element of who and what we are. Thus, religious freedom and the freedom not to have a religion stands beneath the law, supporting it and creating the circumstances in which you can have effective law, as has been the case in this country since the sealing of Magna Carta 800 years ago, negotiated by my predecessor Archbishop of Canterbury, Stephen Langton. In its first clause, it says that,

“the English Church shall be free, and shall have its rights undiminished, and its liberties unimpaired”—

sorry, I had better declare an interest there.

Religion gave birth to the rule of law, particularly through Judaism. The question is therefore: how do we translate this undiminished right and unimpaired liberty into the contemporary situation, where, too often, as we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Alton, culture, law and religion seem to have incommensurable values? The foundational freedom of religious freedom in the state prevents the state claiming the ultimate loyalty in every area, a loyalty to which it has no right—never has done and never will do—if we believe in the ultimate dignity of the human being.

My second point is that religious freedom is threatened on a global scale, as we have heard, but also in a very complex way. Attacks on religious freedom are often linked to economic circumstances, to sociology, to history and to many other factors. Practically, if we are to defend religious liberty, we have to draw in these other factors. For example, if we want to defend religious freedom around the world—and again I say, the freedom to have no religion—do not sell guns to people who oppress religious freedom; do not launder their money; restrict trade with them; confine the way in which we deal with them; and, above, all, speak frankly and openly, naming them for what they are.

Where a state claims the ultimate right to oppress religious freedom, it stops the last and the strongest barrier against tyranny. From the beginning of time—from the beginning of the Christian era, when the apostles said that they would obey God rather than the Sanhedrin, through the Reformation to the martyrs of communism, to Bonhoeffer and to Archbishop Tutu—up to our own day around the world, we have needed religious freedom as a global defence of freedom.