Government Departments: Communication with Industry and Commerce

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Monday 14th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am happy to give the noble Lord the commitment he seeks. Nuclear power will be an important component of our energy infrastructure and it is also important that we continue to invest in the SMR programme.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, is the message that the Government seek to convey to the City and to commerce that a Conservative Government are best equipped to clear up the mess that only a Conservative Government could make?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his helpful question. The message we seek to convey is that the City of London is an important component of the UK financial infrastructure. It makes an important contribution to the UK economy. Proportionate regulation is vital to this sector, but we continue to encourage and support it.

Employers: Fire and Rehire

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

In his excellent way, the noble Lord makes a good point. I am sure it will give all of us, including the Prime Minister, cause for reflection.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

In the proposed code of practice, what sanctions do the Government propose?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord will have to await the details in the code of practice. One option will be to allow employment tribunals to take into account if the statutory code has not been followed and award uplifts in compensation as a result.

Climate Change: Behaviour Change

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think my noble friend is wrong. If he looked at the pages on GOV.UK, he would find tailored advice for his property linked to its EPC, if one exists. Perhaps he needs to spruce up his computer usage.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the effects of climate change will be a moderation in the pace of the population increase of the world, which leads to desertification, deforestation and increased migration. How can we encourage that?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The effects of climate change are of course different in different parts of the world. We need to work with developing countries, which we are doing through our extensive programme of international climate change work, to help them to both mitigate and adapt to the effects of climate change.

Horizon Europe

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Thursday 8th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point, as he often does. I am not sure that the Eurovision Song Contest is a sufficient precursor to Horizon Europe, but, to be serious, his point is very valid: other non-EU countries are associate members. We want to join; that was the agreement that we entered into, and I hope that the EU will see sense and abide by the agreement that it signed.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, surely the Government’s default programme is a second best. The Minister has said that it will deliver “many of the benefits” of the current programme. Where are the gaps, and what will not be delivered?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure that it is second best; it is an alternative. We have many scientific co-operation programmes with many other parts of the world; the EU is not the be-all and end-all of scientific co-operation. However, we think that there is a lot of value in Horizon Europe, which is why we agreed that we should join up. Of course, we are prepared to pay all the associated costs. That was the agreement that we entered into and we want to try to join, but we have a plan B if that proves impossible.

Russian Oil and Gas Imports

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with a number of the points my noble friend made. Of course we should put the maximum pressure on Putin because of his appalling actions, and continue to invest in the North Sea for our domestic production. We should also continue to invest in nuclear power and renewables. One point I differ with him on slightly is fracking, which I am afraid does not offer the silver bullet many people think it does.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, is it the Government’s view that the current and proposed increases in energy prices fundamentally alter the economic and security case for tidal barrages, such as that proposed for Swansea Bay?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Not directly. The cheapest and most effective renewable source in the UK is offshore wind, which is why we are continuing to develop that at pace. We already have one of the largest offshore wind sectors in the world. We have a target of considerable extra capacity, moving up to 30 gigawatts by 2030.

Post Office: Horizon Compensation

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Monday 10th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Lord on the first part of his question. The correct answer to that is to wait for the outcome of the inquiry. As we have discussed before, this went on for decades, and exactly who was responsible at the time, and who knew what and when, is a hugely complicated issue. Of course, many of the people responsible at those times are no longer in government, in the department or in the Post Office. It will be important to find out who exactly who was responsible over a long period of time, and then we can pin the appropriate blame.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, to accelerate things and bring an end to the scandal, would the Government consider a scheme similar to that which applies to personal injury cases, to agree guidelines or bands within which a settlement could be reached so that legal advisers can properly give advice to those who have suffered as a result of the Post Office injustice?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I outlined in my earlier answer to my noble friend Lord Arbuthnot, we will of course take all the circumstances into account, but necessarily it is important to look at the individual circumstances of each of the postmasters who were wrongly convicted and had their conviction overturned. We want to ensure that everybody is appropriately and fairly compensated within the appropriate bands and will do so.

Queen’s Speech

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 16th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

What Denmark and other countries do is of course a matter for them. It seems to be a habit in the EU that, if referendums do not produce the results that the proponents wish, people need to vote again until they give the right answer.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

Does the noble Lord at least accept the possibility that the people have changed their mind after a snapshot vote?

[Lord Callanan]

I listened carefully to the noble Lord make that argument during his contribution, in which—he will correct me if I am wrong—he effectively said, “Well, every five years we might have a general election. It’s been only three years since the referendum. Therefore, people might have an opportunity to change their mind”. The problem with that argument is that, when we have a general election, a new Government are installed and by the following general election people have the opportunity to see how they have performed. We have not yet implemented the results of the original referendum, so he might want to come back to the subject when we have left the European Union and people have seen how successful this country can be outside the EU.

Although our focus remains on securing a deal, the Government are ready to leave without a deal, if necessary, on 31 October. Last week we published a Brexit—

Brexit: Cross-party Discussions

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Thursday 16th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for the implication in her question that Labour respects the referendum result. Obviously, I totally agree with that. If that is the case, it is beholden on the Labour Party to tell us which bits of the withdrawal agreement it does not like. Is it the citizens’ rights protections, the financial settlement, the implementation period or the Northern Ireland protocol? Which bits does it not like?

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

How do the Government respond to the concern that any potential agreement is likely to be repudiated by any successor to the Prime Minister?

[Lord Callanan]

I think the noble Lord is getting ahead of himself. The withdrawal agreement has been negotiated by the Government. We stand by that. The EU has made it clear that it is the only and best agreement available, and that will be reflected in the legislation that we bring forward, which I hope Parliament will consider in all seriousness.

Brexit: Petition to Revoke Article 50 Notification

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 26th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

As usual, my noble friend makes a powerful point. We need to respect the votes of 17.4 million people, which is a bigger number than the 5 million who signed the online petition.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, is there not a contradiction between the Government’s expressed intention to put the deal before the House of Commons again and again but not to give the British people a chance to have second thoughts?

[Lord Callanan]

We remain committed to trying to convince the House of Commons that it is a good deal. It is of course a compromise—nobody gets exactly what they want—but we think that it is the best deal on the table. In fact, it is the only deal on the table, and it will deliver a smooth and orderly departure.

Brexit: Dispute Resolution and Enforcement (European Union Committee Report)

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

That is the definitive response? Have the Government told Monsieur Barnier that there will be no extension at all of the withdrawal period?

[Lord Callanan]

Indeed, and it is the EU position as well that there will be no extension of the implementation period. The terms of it are agreed. That is the position of the Government, and as far as I am aware that is also the position of the EU.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, asked me about the forthcoming withdrawal Bill. It used to be called the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill, but to confuse matters further it is now called the withdrawal Bill—to add on to the withdrawal Act that we already have. Yes, the noble Lord is correct in his interpretation that to legislate for the implementation period, depending on the final agreement, we will need to modify parts of the withdrawal Act.

Moving on to the longer term, our White Paper on the future partnership published a detailed vision for the future security and economic partnership—a framework which we believe will deliver the unprecedented partnership all our leaders are committed to. The proposal advanced in the White Paper builds on the vision set out by the Prime Minister at Lancaster House, in Florence, at Mansion House and in Munich. As we leave the EU, we want to build a new deep and special partnership based on mutual trust and reliability, with a transparent way of ensuring that each side is acting in accordance with the final agreement.

To ensure that that new relationship stands the test of time, we will need to have the right structures in place for co-operation, decision-making and the prevention and resolution of disputes. We are proposing a system that provides institutional governance over the future relationship, including the areas where the UK and the EU agree to apply the same rules, and over our participation in certain EU bodies. We hope to achieve an arrangement that recognises the unique starting point of having the same rules and regulations. We have set out a clear structure to underpin the deep and special relationship we are seeking. The future relationship should be based on an overarching institutional framework which will encompass most of the individual agreements that make up the partnership and set out any common governance arrangements. These should include political oversight and a joint committee.

This framework draws on precedents from other international agreements, including those that the EU has entered into, which all have some form of institutional architecture. In general, the broader and deeper the relationship, the more important it is that there is a strong institutional architecture in place to govern it. We are seeking an ambitious deal, one that recognises the deep and special partnership that we have with the EU and its member states. This institutional framework, carefully designed to respect the autonomous legal orders of the UK and the EU, has the strength and flexibility to support the depth of the relationship we wish to create. In line with that principle of respecting our autonomous legal order, we have been clear that in leaving the EU we will bring an end to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. The proposal delivers on that commitment. No longer will courts in the UK be able to refer cases to the CJEU, or the CJEU arbitrate disputes between the UK and the EU.

We are proposing that, in some areas, the UK will make a choice to retain a common rulebook with the same rules as the EU. Where we have a common rulebook, it is possible that a dispute could relate to whether these rules have been interpreted correctly. The UK recognises that only the CJEU can bind the EU on the interpretation of EU law and therefore, in these instances there should be an option for a referral to the CJEU for an interpretation, either by mutual consent from the joint committee or from an independent arbitration panel. The joint committee or arbitration panel would have to resolve the dispute in a way that is consistent with this interpretation. This would respect the principle that the court of one party cannot resolve disputes between the two. In those areas where we have a common rulebook, it will be important for businesses and citizens here and in the EU that these rules are interpreted and applied consistently.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, asked about individuals’ access to dispute resolution mechanisms such as arbitration. While they will not have access to these mechanisms as they are at present for state-to-state disputes, we are committed to ensuring the consistent interpretation and application of the rules that we agree with the EU. The UK would also, therefore, commit by treaty that its courts will pay due regard to the relevant CJEU case law, in so far as this is relevant to the matter before them. As the White Paper makes clear, UK courts will not, however, be able to make preliminary references to the CJEU. This will not affect consistent interpretation of a common rulebook, which will be delivered through the commitment to pay due regard to existing case law. In other areas there will be a recognition that rules are equivalent. We will need to agree governance arrangements that, first, oversee the application of regulatory commitments, secondly, ensure that the common rulebook is interpreted consistently and, thirdly, enable the UK to participate in EU bodies and agencies where needed for co-operation to take place.

We believe that it is in the national interest and in the interests of certain sectors of our economy to maintain a smooth trading relationship by having rules similar to the EU’s, and to continue UK involvement in certain EU bodies. This is all aimed at enhancing our wider economic and security partnership with the EU, providing effective structures to oversee the process and providing certainty to businesses and citizens, so that their rights and obligations will be applied consistently in both the UK and the EU. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, asked whether this model, set out in the White Paper, would also serve for governing the withdrawal agreement, while the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, asked for an update on progress in negotiations. I would like to acknowledge that a great deal of progress has been made over the past couple of weeks in negotiations concerning the withdrawal agreement; however, there are still a number of areas that are subject to ongoing negotiations, one of which is the governance of this agreement.

I think I answered the question of the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, about individuals. He also asked about the British judge on the Court of Justice. Of course, as he will be well aware, judges do not “represent” their member states. As Sir Konrad Schiemann said in his evidence to the committee, the UK will no longer be a member state from March 2019 and it is therefore right that we should withdraw from the institutions. While we will not have a UK judge, we will still have the right to intervene before the CJEU and our lawyers will maintain their rights of audience.

Moving on to the issue of civil judicial co-operation and the Lugano convention, mentioned by a number of noble Lords, we also recognise in the sphere of private law the important role of civil judicial co-operation for businesses, consumers, employees and families in providing clear rules to resolve disputes in sensitive matters quickly and efficiently. That is why the UK wants our future relationship with the EU to include a mutually beneficial agreement on civil judicial co-operation. This would include co-operation in civil, commercial, family and insolvency matters. The UK has presented its position to the Article 50 task force team in the Commission, and that presentation is available on the GOV.UK website. That is subject to ongoing negotiations that we are taking forward with our EU partners.

I also reassure noble Lords about our continued participation in the 2007 Lugano convention. The UK has been clear that we will seek to participate in the convention after our exit from the EU. At the March 2018 European Council, we agreed that the EU will notify other countries that the UK is to be treated as a member state—

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

The Minister has on many occasions used the phrase, “negotiations are continuing” over a very wide field, but the clock is ticking. Is he confident that it will have stopped ticking in time for us to be ready by the end date in March?

[Lord Callanan]

The clock will not stop ticking. I hope that it will continue to tick and that negotiations will continue to advance, but of course, as he is well aware, we cannot wait until March to get agreements. Noble Lords are aware that we have to legislate for the withdrawal agreement through both Houses. We are very aware of the needs of parliamentarians; they will insist on proper parliamentary scrutiny of this important legislation, and therefore we will need to get an agreement swiftly, certainly in terms of the withdrawal agreement, in order to provide for the meaningful vote and then to provide for appropriate scrutiny of the legislation to implement it.

As I said, at the March 2018 European Council we agreed that the EU will notify other countries that the UK is to be treated as a member state for the purposes of international agreements for the duration of the implementation period. This includes the Lugano convention. We are seeking to put in place arrangements to continue our participation in that convention at the end of the implementation period. However, the exact arrangements for continuing our participation are a matter for future negotiations with our EU partners.

My time is up, but let me say a word about agency participation. We believe that it is in the mutual interests of the UK and the EU for us to continue to participate in various EU agencies and we have set those out. We are seeking to maintain co-operation on the EU’s law enforcement tools, including the European arrest warrant, although the legal form and governance of these arrangements are subject to negotiation. I say, for the benefit of the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, that where we participate in an EU agency we will respect the remit of the CJEU, as set out in the White Paper.

I hope that I have, as far as possible, reassured the House that we are developing a robust framework that will ensure that, while we are leaving the EU, we will continue to build on our deep and special partnership for the long term. When we have finally, I hope, reached agreement, I look forward to coming back to the House and updating Members further.

Brexit: European Council and Commission

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank my noble friend for his question. The Government are committed to the avoidance of a hard border, including any physical infrastructure or related checks and controls. The UK’s intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the UK would propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

Do we confidently expect to get a better deal on our own with, for example, South Korea, than the EU will get?

[Lord Callanan]

It will be a matter for the negotiations, but we hope to achieve an agreement at least as good as the existing trade agreement with South Korea, yes.

European Union

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Monday 6th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Because we will not be a member in the long term, my Lords.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, would it not be somewhat impertinent of the Government to seek to influence an organisation from which they have pledged to withdraw their membership?

Transport: North East of England

Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Lord Callanan

Thursday 20th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

As I mentioned in my earlier answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, we are currently in discussions with Nexus regarding its proposals for new rolling stock. DfT and Treasury officials continue to work with Nexus to understand the business case for the replacement of the current fleet and to explore all funding options. As I have also mentioned, we are currently supporting the Metro with a capital grant of £317 million. The local growth fund is providing £2.5 million for the refurbishment of the Metro stop at Newcastle Central Station and the operational costs are supported by a revenue grant of £203 million over the nine years. I am aware that there are proposals to expand the Metro and I can confirm that officials from my department are in discussions with Nexus officials to see how this can best be accomplished.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, we in south-west Wales are not concerned about the confirmation of new lines but about the apparent abandonment of a major electrification project from Cardiff to Swansea. There has been a series of body blows to Swansea of late, including the long delays in the lagoon. Can the Government confirm that they have not written off south-west Wales? Do they believe that life ends at Cardiff?

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, of course we have not written off south-west Wales. As I said, we have the largest programme of transport investment since Victorian times. As regards the particular scheme he mentioned, we are looking at all the possible options. New technology now enables bimodal trains to operate which could allow for a seamless transition from diesel to electric. I am aware that many parts of the country actually do not want overhead electric gantries despoiling landscapes; and in many cases, there is no appreciable increase or improvement in service by electrification. However, we will continue to look at all the options.