Ukraine: Ministry of Defence Strategy
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(1 year, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
Yes, and I think there will be almost unanimity in response to the noble Baroness’s point. The challenge is finding a mechanism through which to disseminate that information. As your Lordships will be aware, that is a very challenging proposition indeed in certain countries. We in the UK are determined to play our part and do what we can to use communication to spread information and provide up-to-date positions. We can only hope that some of that is landing, as I said earlier to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, however this conflict ends, and end it will, the threat from Russia will remain. What is the position of the United Kingdom Government on security guarantees, in advance of any possible NATO membership, to protect Ukraine from any future Russian threat?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
As the noble Lord will be aware, the UK is supportive of Ukraine’s accession to NATO. We think that is a very important step forward in relation to Euro-Atlantic security. As he will be aware, that is for the member states of NATO to determine, and it will be for them to determine whether any other criteria have to be taken into account.
UK Undersea Infrastructure: Hostile Activity
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
A critical element of this debate is resilience, which is partly a matter for government in consultation with industry and certainly a matter for individual private infrastructure operators. As my noble friend will be aware, a raft of government departments has responsibility for this: the Cabinet Office, the FCDO, DSIT, the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero —for which I shall not try to use an acronym—and the MoD. While there is a holistic framework of government activity, my noble friend is correct that resilience is the key to good protection.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
How significant do the Government consider the reports of the recent accelerated activity around our shores of Russian vessels, particularly those purporting to be either research or fishing vessels, but which are near oil installations?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
We view that activity with great gravity. As I said earlier, we are aware of that activity and we constantly monitor it, but I am unable to disclose further information.
Top Secret Document Leaks
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
I do not have the response which my right honourable colleague promised in the other place, but I undertake to ensure that a copy is forwarded to the noble Baroness whatever that response is. Our private contractors operate under a very strict regime, not just in terms of vetting the people they have who have access to sensitive material, but also, in terms of undertakings, those individuals must comply with the Official Secrets Act and with the rules, protocols and all the security practices which we expect. There have been instances where these have been breached and prosecutions have ensued. Therefore measures are in place, but I will make the further detail promised by my right honourable friend in the other place available to the noble Baroness.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, the leaks reveal the US assessment that there will be an imminent vulnerability of Ukraine to Russian aircraft. What lessons have we learned in terms of early provision of aircraft and countermeasures to Ukraine?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
As I indicated yesterday in responding to a question about Ukraine, we are working in lockstep with our allies through forums such as the G7 and NATO and efforts such as the UK-led International Fund for Ukraine to get Ukraine the firepower it needs to rapidly regain its territory. We are in daily contact. Tomorrow the Secretary of State for Defence will be at Ramstein, the airbase in Germany, at a meeting hosted by the United States. We are also anticipating the NATO summit in Vilnius in July, and we have constant bilateral engagement with our other partners. Everything is being done to ensure that we can respond as meaningfully as possible to what Ukraine thinks it needs.
Integrated Review: Update
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(1 year, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
The noble Lord will understand that, in this day and age, we cannot look at one aspect of capability on its own—that is not how we deal with and address threats now. The key to how we operate is, first, co-operation with allies; it is also agility in how we respond and making sure that we have the technology and equipment to respond. Although there is no denying—and I have not attempted to deny—that we have seen a hollowing out of our land capability over some decades, it would be quite wrong to give the impression that MoD in the UK does not have a very solid capability: we do. It is important, particularly having regard to the instability in other parts of the world, that we do not talk down our Armed Forces, not least for the morale of the men and women who serve so bravely in them.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, since publication two years ago, surely there has been a major global change—namely, the illegal invasion of Ukraine. Is not one of the lessons of those two years that we should concentrate more on European defence and give up the illusion of a greater tilt to the Indo-Pacific?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
We do concentrate on Euro-Atlantic security, and the swiftness with which we responded—indeed, led the response—to the illegal invasion of Ukraine is tangible evidence of that. But I agree with the noble Lord: the threats that we face nowadays are multifaceted, and it is important that we devise a capability that can respond to the character of that new threat. The noble Lord will be aware that we are dealing not just with traditional land, sea and air domains; we now deal with space, cyber and electro- magnetic domains. It is a complicated world in which we live.
Ukraine: Update
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(1 year, 11 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
My understanding is that the United States has sent tanks. It has also sent Bradley vehicles. I think I am correct in saying that, in addition to the UK, France and Poland have sent tanks. As to what pressure we can bring to bear, the meetings to which I referred in my responses to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, reflect exactly the comprehensive and high-level discussions that are taking place. Everybody is clear that we all have to pull together in support of Ukraine. There is no doubt that, if the Leopard tank could be part of the facility provided to Ukraine, that would be an important addition.
The right reverend Prelate also asked about existing capability in the UK. I will say just two things about that. We have a mixture of equipment that we have provided and, if we take the recent example of the Challenger 2 tanks, I can assure him that there will be no long-term capability gap. We currently have 227 Challenger 2 tanks; we are giving 14. We will operate 148 upgraded Challenger 3 tanks in future so this donation will not reduce the total number of tanks that the Army holds. As to the other equipment, munitions and related material that we have provided, we are very careful to ensure that it does not in any way imperil the capability that we need to protect the security of this country.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, those of us who have been sceptical about the Government’s pretention to leadership post Brexit must surely applaud their leadership in respect of Ukraine, particularly in the provision of tanks. Are we confident that the Ukrainians will have sufficient training to deal with these tanks in time for the anticipated Russian onslaught in the spring? What precisely is the position of Germany in respect of those countries that need its permission to supply the German tanks? I have one final thought: what do we now understand as the war aims of Putin? Are they limited to the four areas that he purportedly annexed in the past?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
Perhaps it is easier if I tell the noble Lord what I cannot reply to. I do not know what is in the mind of President Putin—does anyone? As to the attitude of Germany, I have said before that this is a subject of fluid discussion at these important fora, and that discussion is taking place as we speak. I very much hope that the force of that discussion will be to make clear the desire for the Leopard tank to be included in the facility being provided to Ukraine.
On training, I said in response to an earlier question that the UK will train Ukrainian detachments to operate all the platforms we donate. That will start as soon as Ukrainian troops arrive in the UK, which is likely to be by the end of this month. There is a mutual interest in making sure that training is conducted as effectively and swiftly as possible. The estimate is that the equipment we are announcing will be operated by Ukrainian troops on the battlefield in the coming months. I obviously cannot be more specific than that.
Ukraine: Lethal Weapons
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(2 years, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
I think my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon answered a Question recently on this very issue. He was quite clear that, although normalisation of relations with Russia is not possible at the moment, robust diplomatic engagement is necessary. This is very much an FCDO responsibility. I can reassure the noble and gallant Lord that the MoD is regularly in dialogue, not just with our defence allies and partners—whether within NATO or outwith—but also, of course, with the armed forces of Ukraine.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
Can the Minister confirm that there are considerable logistic problems in the supply of main battle tanks, which are, of course, vulnerable to air attack, and political problems in the supply of aircraft, which, again, are much needed? However, there are no such problems in the supply of air defence systems and, possibly, of missiles, which might protect Odessa from attacks from the sea. So will such be delivered?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
The noble Lord will be aware of the mixture of anti-tank missiles that we have previously supplied. We have also taken the decision to supply Starstreak high-velocity man-portable anti-air missiles. This will allow the Ukrainian forces to better defend their skies.
Ukraine Update
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(2 years, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
The noble Baroness makes a really important point and one that has registered with many people, not least Governments. It is somewhat wide of my area of departmental responsibility, but I hear what she says and will reflect that back to the department.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, many serious analysts expected Kyiv to be taken via Belarus within two days or so. Clearly President Putin did not factor in the remarkable resistance of the people of Ukraine and their morale, in spite of the imbalance of forces. Quite rightly, we have decided to give sophisticated weaponry to Ukraine, but that surely needs very good training. Where will this training be done—outside the borders of Ukraine?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
I can confirm the first part of the noble Lord’s question: yes, there will be a degree of training required. He will understand that, for reasons of operational discretion, I am not going to be more explicit about that.
D-day Landings Memorial: Education
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(4 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
Congratulations are due, but does the Minister agree that, apart from our dwindling band of veterans and their families, a major target group of visitors must be local people in Normandy, particularly French schoolchildren? Will she therefore ensure that all the material is bilingual and uses, so far as is possible, memories of those who were there at the time? Having been a student working on a farm on the plain of Caen, I know that there is tremendous enthusiasm for the role which we in Britain played in the liberation of Normandy.
Baroness Goldie
The noble Lord makes an important point. It will of course be for the trustees to determine how they administer and run the education centre, but I am sure that they will pay close attention to his observations.
Syria: British Armed Forces
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie
I should say to the noble and gallant Lord that the United Kingdom enjoys a very good relationship with the Republic of Cyprus, which includes a cordial relationship as regards our sovereign base areas. Of course, our sovereign base areas have been critical to our capability to endeavour to take action against Daesh in Syria.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, is it not clear that, as a result of President Trump’s decision, we are witnessing a major geopolitical shift in the region in favour of Russia? What protocols or understandings are there with Russia to ensure that there is no clash between Russian planes and our own?
Baroness Goldie
I can reassure the noble Lord that we have set procedures for handling the airspace above Syria. He is right that, given the number of parties operating over Syria now, the airspace is congested, but that is no different from the conditions during earlier counter-Daesh operations. There are procedures to ensure that air activity is appropriately deconflicted and handled in a safe and professional manner. Those are the rules by which the United Kingdom abides, as do our allies.
Rwanda: CHOGM 2020
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
Yes, I do. I thank and acknowledge my noble friend for his excellent work as the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to Rwanda and Uganda. Rwanda is one of Africa’s fastest growing economies; it achieved a growth rate of 8.6% in 2018. It is an important trading partner for the United Kingdom. The UK is the second-largest investor in Rwanda and we are committed to sustaining this partnership.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, Rwanda straddles Anglophone and Francophone Africa—the Commonwealth and La Francophonie. Is not this CHOGM a good opportunity to bring the two organisations more closely together? Will the Government use their best endeavours to encourage the organisers to do just that?
Baroness Goldie
The noble Lord makes an interesting point. There is a desire that the next CHOGM should reflect the success of last year’s in the United Kingdom. I am sure that all efforts to bring in interested parties and move relationships forward will be a very positive development.
Gaza
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
I reassure the noble Lord that we are deeply concerned about the recurring violence in Gaza and the surrounding region, and we regularly lobby the Israelis about the damage that their restrictions are doing to the lives and livelihoods of ordinary Palestinians. We have also raised concerns with the Egyptian authorities, but there is no excuse or justification for terrorism. We utterly condemn the violent acts of Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza. The firing of rockets towards civilian areas is unacceptable and must stop. I agree with the noble Lord that all parties should work together to agree a long-term sustainable plan to improve the situation with help from the international community, and we welcome efforts by those who are working to develop solutions that will ultimately lead to peace.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, Israel is like one of those dangerous animals which, when attacked, defends itself. It would surely be more sensible to talk to Hamas and suggest that it stops rockets being launched into Israel and tunnels to Israel being built. The Israelis must know where the rockets are located and where the tunnels begin because of the quality of their intelligence operations. That would surely be the better practice.
Baroness Goldie
The noble Lord will be aware of the Government’s long-standing position: Hamas’s military wing has been proscribed in the UK since 2001 and the UK has a policy of no contact with Hamas, including the political as well as the military wing. Our position is that it must renounce violence, recognise Israel and accept previously signed agreements.
Sri Lanka
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
The noble Baroness makes a very valuable point in relation to the Commonwealth, which as she is aware is a strong and coherent family of nations. When any one of these nations is affected like this, there is a sense of standing together and wanting to provide support. Specifically in relation to the United Kingdom, the UK has made a long-term commitment to improving human rights in Sri Lanka and is dedicated to supporting the rebuilding of the country after three decades of civil conflict. I referred in an earlier answer to the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund. The UK is providing Sri Lanka with £8.3 million over three years, which commenced in 2016. That is specifically to include support for police reform and training, reconciliation and peacebuilding, and demining in the north of the country. But that is against the backdrop of wanting to protect human rights and support the emergence of the strong constitution to which I think the noble Baroness is referring.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister speaks for the whole House in deploring the massacre of all the innocents in Sri Lanka, both the hotel guests and the worshippers, particularly the children. She is right also to put it in the context of a worldwide persecution of Christians, evidenced by bodies such as Open Doors, the appropriate Catholic body and the Barnabas Fund. As we await the Bishop of Truro’s report, how does she respond to the charges that we all in the UK, of all parties, have been too restrained by some form of post-colonial guilt in making appropriate representations when Christians are massacred in other countries?
Baroness Goldie
As both my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister made clear in their Easter messages, there is profound concern at the extent to which Christians are facing persecution. The figures are deeply troubling. The UK is committed to doing everything possible to ensure that people of all faiths are treated equally, and we have a strong and proud tradition ourselves of religious tolerance. Can we learn? I am sure that we can. Is there more that we can do? We should never stop being prepared to learn. Even arising out of dreadful situations, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, pointed out, it is possible to learn. There may be lessons that we can learn from this event. I think that it is already clear that there has been a global condemnation of what has happened, and rightly so. Equally, I think that there is a global sense of purpose to do whatever we can, collectively as nations across the world, to protect the freedom of different faiths to practise their beliefs. That of course includes Christians.
Brexit: European External Action Service
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
I think the noble Lord’s views are well rehearsed in this respect and come as no surprise to the Chamber, although I regret the use of words such as “childish”. We have to acknowledge that the citizens of this country, asked to make a decision, made that decision, a decision which the Government, in my opinion absolutely correctly, are striving to implement and respect.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, at the moment in overseas posts it is normal for the British overseas representatives to meet their European counterparts and European Union representatives for regular meetings to exchange information. Is it assumed that there will be a formal relationship for this excellent procedure to continue?
Baroness Goldie
As I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the detail of such arrangements and relationships will rest with the future, but as for the spirit in which the UK would approach these vital discussions I have tried to explain that we are in sympathy with many of the agencies, facilities, relationships and partnerships within the EU which have so helped both the EU and the UK. We would certainly want to approach these discussions constructively and in a positive manner.
Western Balkans Summit
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
My Lords, we are clear that the Srebrenica massacre was an act of genocide; indeed, we make that clear in our engagement in the region. We will be working with leaders from the region to address legacy issues from the conflicts of the 1990s in the context of a summit, including by supporting accountability for war crimes. The noble and learned Lord will aware that the International Criminal Tribunal and its successor, the International Residual Mechanism for Criminal Tribunals, have played an important role in holding to account those responsible for serious violations of international humanitarian law in the region, including at Srebrenica. We support those efforts.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, for the past five years, the Berlin process has brought together the six west Balkan countries and relevant countries of the European Union. After Brexit, as part neither of the region nor of the EU, I presume that we will not be members of that. Will our influence therefore be diminished?
Baroness Goldie
What is very clear is the mutual interest that the United Kingdom and the EU have in the western Balkans area. That is an interest which I am glad to say seems to be welcomed by the west Balkan countries. The noble Lord raised Brexit. We and our friends in the EU will have regard to that mutuality of interest. A stable western Balkans area means good news for both the EU and the UK. We also have respective capacity to contribute help, be it in defence or with programme help such as the UK has contributed across the region.
Baroness Goldie
In response to the first part of the noble Lord’s question, I should point out that the summit comes under the umbrella of the Berlin process. Of course, the UK will continue to be a member of that process even after we have left the EU.
Baroness Goldie
The noble Lord seems to be adding to the discussion from a sedentary position—I am not sure what he said over the shoulder of the noble Lord, Lord Collins. My understanding is that we will be members of the Berlin process after we have left the EU—that is important. As I said earlier, in or out of the EU, the UK continues to have a strong interest in and a demonstrable commitment to the western Balkans area.
Korean Peninsula
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
I should say to my noble friend that I am not privy to the precise communications and arrangements that exist between the Prime Minister and the President of the United States, but I reassure him that there is a high-level diplomatic exchange. There is regular evidence of that—as I indicated in the Statement, the Foreign Secretary is in touch with Secretary Tillerson. I thank my noble friend for his helpful observation that we have to work closely with all our allies. That is axiomatic if we are to make any sense of trying to have a coherent response against North Korea.
I am able to give a quick update from this holograph note that has just been passed to me. It says, “PM spoke to the President today”. There we are—hot off the press to my noble friend.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, what is the use of leaving a military option on the table when we know that such an option is wholly unrealistic? As the Minister has said, that is in part because of the proximity of Seoul to the border. Should we not be brutally realistic and accept that that is so? Does not she agree that one of the real problems here is that no one, even the South Koreans as I have heard from several of their leaders, really understands the inner workings of the North Korean regime? We do not know its motives. Are they triggered by some form of self-preservation of the regime? Is there some form of potential blackmail of the US and its allies? This is a fact of life: we do not have any intelligence about what motivates the North Koreans. Given the importance that everyone accepts of pressure from China, can she say whether there is any evidence at all that it is prepared to use the oil weapon?
Baroness Goldie
I emphasise that the United Kingdom Government are focusing on a diplomatic solution and, with the collective support of the United Nations member states, to achieve a regime of sanctions which has an economic impact on North Korea so that the revenues making possible the development of its nuclear capability are cut off. It is worth repeating: that is the focus of the United Kingdom Government. We would regard a military solution as a very grave option indeed.
On the role of China, again we have to work in partnership. It is clear that China has shown, particularly in its language at the recent United Nations meeting, how extremely worried it is about this. I think that the country has realised that it has to demonstrate a willingness to play its part not just as a member of the United Nations but also by supporting the sanctions regime.
The final point raised by the noble Lord was that of oil. Again, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, during the discussions at the United Nations which are to be held imminently, searching questions will be asked and a vigorous exploration made of the options. The United Kingdom believes that there are still sanctions options to pursue, and that is what I think will be the source of a robust discussion at the United Nations.
Nigeria
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Baroness for her question. We are all aware of the term “desertification”—a very long word for the drying up of ground in territories in Nigeria—and, certainly, that seems to be attributable to climate change. Across the globe, major powers recognise that there is an issue, and the United Kingdom is doing everything it can to contribute to both the recognition of climate change and its alleviation. I am sure that that will have a beneficial effect across areas of the world, including Nigeria.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, the United Nations predicts that, by the year 2050, the population of Nigeria will more than double, to 411 million, making it the third most populous country in the world. Is this increase not bound to lead to further internal conflict and again to mass emigration? I congratulate the Government on what they have done in co-hosting the recent family planning summit in London, but will they deplore the position of the Trump Administration in withdrawing substantial funds from their family planning programmes?
Baroness Goldie
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, for his question. Obviously, my responsibility and that of my colleagues is for the position of the United Kingdom Government, which have a positive record in relation to Nigeria. The estimates of population are extremely difficult to quantify, and reliable data are almost impossible to obtain. However, I have no doubt whatever that there is a significant population in Nigeria—it is thought to be the largest African country—and the noble Lord is right to allude to the possible consequences of population increase not being matched with education. The United Kingdom Government, both through our Nigeria Stability and Reconciliation Programme and through our significant humanitarian aid, are making a positive contribution to try to address and alleviate these challenges.
Turkey: Death Penalty
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
I think that the noble Lord is referring to a background of transfer of Christian churches, starting in 2012. The British embassy in Ankara regularly raises human rights issues with the Turkish authorities and we will closely follow the legal process implicit in this activity. We strongly support religious freedom in Turkey and have supported civil society organisations working in this area.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, the Foreign Minister of Turkey is a former president of the Assembly of the Council of Europe; therefore the Turkish Government must be well aware of the consequences of the reintroduction of the death penalty, possibly after a referendum. Is it the Government’s view that Turkey will inevitably have to be suspended from the Council of Europe if capital punishment is reintroduced?
Baroness Goldie
As I indicated to my noble friend Lord Balfe, the United Kingdom Government’s position on the death penalty is crystal clear and widely known and understood. I have also indicated that Council of Europe members seem to be unanimous in their opposition to the death penalty. It would be for the Council of Europe membership to determine how to respond if—it is an “if”—Turkey went down the undesirable road of reintroducing the death penalty. However, I think that Turkey understands that that would jeopardise its position within the Council of Europe.
Zimbabwe
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
If I may take the latter point first, the United Kingdom Government have a very impressive track record of engaging not just with Zimbabwe but with South Africa on the situation in Zimbabwe. There is a record of frequent ministerial exchanges. On visa applications specifically, the noble Lord will understand that I am unable to comment on individual applications. These matters are considered by UK Visas and Immigration, which is required to apply a consistent approach. All visa applications are considered on their merits against immigration rules for visitors.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that the policies of that aged, sick and corrupt ruler in Zimbabwe have impoverished what was once the bread basket of the region? Is it not clear that, unlike President Mbeki, President Zuma has so many of his own problems at home that he is reluctant to intervene, in spite of the fact that region is being tarnished by the policies of President Mugabe?
Baroness Goldie
South Africa and the United Kingdom have enjoyed regular exchanges and have co-operated on a range of issues. That includes within the South African development community as well as outside, such as with Burundi and Sudan. Increasingly, we have exchanged assessments of Zimbabwe. It is important that the United Kingdom endeavours to maintain diplomatic dialogue, not just with the other African countries but with Zimbabwe itself. As the noble Lord will no doubt be aware, the United Kingdom Government have been instrumental in making important resource available to Zimbabwe by making payments not to the Zimbabwean Government but through the medium of non-governmental organisations and our implementing partners.
Syria
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie(8 years, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie
I say to the noble Lord that the Assad regime is responsible for the crisis in Syria. More than 400,000 Syrians have died so that Assad can hold on to power. The tactics of his regime include, in my opinion, appalling conduct: sieges, chemical attacks and indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas. That is why the United Kingdom Government consider that President Assad cannot be part of the long-term future of Syria. He must step down to enable a credible political transition.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
Does the noble Baroness agree that only time will tell whether this is indeed a positive turning of the page, with humanitarian access, as she said? Rather, it may be seen as the consolidation of the Assad regime and an indication that Russia has achieved its long-term aim of being a power broker in the Middle East.
Turkey: Judicial Services
Debate between Lord Anderson of Swansea and Baroness Goldie
Baroness Goldie
I thank my noble friend. He makes an important point. The backdrop to this, of course, is the state of emergency that has now been declared. But that has been declared under the constitutional provisions of Turkey, in which there are safeguards. On the specific issue of enacting the rule of law, of course retaining an independent and operating judiciary will require judges working to apply the due process of law. That is absolutely essential if we are to see the standards we wish to see upheld in Turkey. These are views that we hold very publicly in the United Kingdom and that we will be reflecting.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, does not the speed and scale of the purge of judges suggest that there was a plan pre-existing the actual coup, which has now been put into effect? What does the Minister say about the possibility of the reimposition of the death penalty by the Turkish President, which will be in breach of Turkey’s obligations under the Council of Europe? That is well known to Turkey because its Foreign Minister was a former president of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.
Baroness Goldie
The noble Lord makes an important point. It is not yet clear who was behind the coup attempt and it is unhelpful to speculate on that. However, in relation to the death penalty, I repeat what I said earlier this week in this Chamber. Suggestions that the death penalty may return are very worrying. The Foreign Secretary and other international leaders have emphasised the need for calm. Let me be utterly clear: UK policy on the death penalty is that we oppose it in all circumstances.