BBC
Debate between Lord Alli and Baroness Neville-Rolfe
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
I am grateful to my noble friend for his congratulations; the noble Lord, Lord Hall, has indeed been very helpful in the whole process.
It is an 11-year charter. There is a five-year health check—I use those words advisedly. It is a health check. We are setting up a completely new system of governance. As my noble friend said, the BBC Trust has problems—he foresaw them, but not everyone was so able to do so—and it seems right that a health check, which is what it is, should take place.
Lord Alli (Lab)
Before I start, I say this to the usual channels. On a day when we are adjourning for pleasure and there is no other business, you should not be time-limiting this debate to 20 minutes for those of us on the Back Benches. We deserve a proper share of time. We are adjourning for pleasure today: there is no other business. From speaking to colleagues around the House, that is the feeling of the Back Benches, and you should listen to us a little more often.
The test today for me is: does the White Paper leave the BBC more independent, or less, than it is today? My fear is that it will be less independent. We know that the Secretary of State is a little less ideologically bent towards the BBC. When I read the White Paper, I worry that there are ticking time-bombs in it in three areas. One, which we have talked about, is the appointment of board members. The second is contestability and whether that money will grow in time and be used as a mechanism to siphon off the licence fee. The third and probably the most worrying is trying to force the BBC to do distinctive programmes. My fear is that that will be used to make it move off doing popular programmes which, from the consultation, is what the public and licence fee payers want.
Will the Government confirm that nothing in the distinctiveness mandate will limit the BBC’s ability to produce the programmes it wants, schedule them when it wants to and introduce the new services it thinks are right? Will the noble Baroness answer that question?
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
I thank the noble Lord for making the point about independence, but I take a different view, as I explained, on the first two items. It is clear to me that the way we have set this up, the BBC, with a stronger, more corporate board, and the editorial independence of the director-general, will be the prime focus to decide exactly on the programming. We will not be able to abolish “EastEnders” or do any of the things that people have been worrying about. It leaves the duties squarely with the BBC. There will be a modern regulator—there will be Ofcom—but it is not my experience that Ofcom interferes all that much with the content of individual commercial companies. There is occasionally the need for an appeal or complaint, and I am sure that that system will be moved across. Our general approach is to enhance independence, which I believe we have done, and make sure that the BBC can continue to make all the programmes it needs to make. I continually emphasise the point about informing, educating and entertaining, while of course serving all audiences. It will need to do that.
BBC Charter White Paper
Debate between Lord Alli and Baroness Neville-Rolfe
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
I agree that the BBC is a huge British success story in so many ways, soft power included. We should wait until tomorrow to see the precise terms of the White Paper, but close to our hearts is ensuring independence.
Lord Alli (Lab)
My Lords, there are 24 hours before the White Paper is published and the Minister will have time to ponder the responses in the other place and here. I return her to the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. Mine is a process question: will we get a vote? The Minister has 24 hours to think about it, but that is the question that we will ask tomorrow, and we will continue to ask it. I suggest that the Minister takes the next 24 hours and, when she returns to the Dispatch Box, has a suitable answer to that question. We are waiting to hear it.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
I look forward to making the Statement tomorrow, but I have made it clear that there will be a full debate in this House. I would like to take the opportunity to thank noble Lords for the input they have made into this process, which has been extremely important in developing our thinking.