Airport Capacity

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Simply put, the Prime Minister has made it clear that this is a Government who will ensure that this is a country that works for everyone—and that is what we are delivering. I do not share the noble Lord’s negative view when he says that we are afraid of making tough calls and tough decisions. What is today’s decision? What was the decision on building HS2? I suggest to him that many of the constituencies impacted by the HS2 development are not—nor will they be in the future, inshallah—held by the Labour Party, but are Conservative seats. This is about what is important in the national interest. That is what this decision is, and we are not going to be deterred from making tough calls.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, on behalf of the many people who for years have believed that there needed to be further airport expansion in the south-east, will my noble friend convey to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Transport our thanks for the fact not just that they have made a clear decision, but that they recognised the urgency of making that decision and got on with it? Secondly, I hope he does not mind if I ask for a little clarification of his Statement. I am not clear whether the consultation over the next 12 months will cover everything that was included in the Statement, or whether it will just be focused on the decision to have the runway at Heathrow. Perhaps he could help us to understand that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the second practical point, the Government are clear that we have now taken a decision that is focused on the additional runway at Heathrow. The consultation will be focused specifically on ensuring that the challenges, and that runway, can be delivered. On his other point, I thank the noble Lord for his support. Of course I will convey his sentiments to my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State.

Airports: London

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am fully aware of that fact, and the noble Lord will be pleased to learn that I shall be visiting London Luton Airport in the next two weeks, as my next visit since my appointment as the Aviation Minister.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend tell us whether, when the Government make their decision shortly, they will take into account the likelihood of legal challenge?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The important issue is that, once the Government have taken a decision, there is a set process to follow for the proposal which is given the green light. A formal process will then be initiated, and we have already agreed that there will be a national development framework through which this will be presented. After that, there will be a development consent order by those who have successfully got the green light for this. During that process, if there are legal challenges to any decision or any element of that, the Government and those who are putting forward the proposal will deal with them according to the planning process which has been determined.

Airports: London

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Monday 5th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government’s position remains consistent. The Prime Minister may have changed but the Government’s position remains that the Davies commission was commissioned to look specifically at airport capacity in the south-east. As I said earlier, there are three options on the table and they are all being considered.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Spicer asked when the Government’s decision will be announced. I wonder whether my noble friend could answer that Question.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The best answer I can give is that the Government will be looking to make that decision very shortly.

Southern Rail: Service Cuts

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Lord and your Lordships’ House that the Government are in regular contact with the company to ensure that the current situation can be remedied, but I call upon both the company and the unions to resolve their dispute. The noble Lord asked specifically about the franchise agreement. Under the franchise agreement, where GTR can provide evidence that cancellations are due to official or unofficial industrial action it can claim force majeure, which it has done on this occasion.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, reverting to my noble friend’s original Answer, what makes him believe that normal service will soon be renewed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I say to my noble friend that I did not say that, and nor did I suggest it. I do not believe that the current situation is acceptable; indeed, the reduction of services is also unacceptable. The first issue is to provide at least some sense of reliability to those using this network as to when trains will be running. My noble friend will also be aware that services have also been suffering from a high degree of sickness, which has resulted in a reduction in service performance since May from 83% to 63%.

Airport Security

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Thursday 17th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We have a very strong regime in terms of our security arrangements. The events at Sharm el-Sheikh raised issues on an international basis, but I assure my noble friend that we continue to review our arrangements not only internationally but, as he was right to refer to, domestically across the airport network in the UK.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, of course the Government are right not to share security information, but can my noble friend tell your Lordships what arrangements are in place to brief airlines that fly into international airports on any findings that might be helpful to them in determining whether they should continue those flights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises another important point about the relationship with airlines. I assure him that we work very closely with all international partners and, where we can, we share important information with the airlines. They play an important role in areas such as advance passenger information, which in the UK is also shared with, for example, the Border Force.

HS2

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I commend the noble Lord—he is a great champion for Scotland and for the United Kingdom. The investment we are making in our rail network across the board, not just in HS2, underlines our commitment to ensuring that the whole country is connected. As the noble Lord will be aware, we have laid plans: we are moving forward with the first stage of HS2 in 2017, and great investment is being made in transport for the north and connectivity across Scotland. He makes a very valid point about connectivity across the country, and it is certainly a principle that I support.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend just talked about enhancing HS2 links across the country—links which are much needed, and the sooner the better. Can he tell your Lordships’ House how he intends to strengthen the links between HS2 and HS1?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Across the network, with HS1 and HS2 and, as my noble friend will be aware, the plans we have for transport for the north, overall we are investing more than £38 billion in the rail network, which will strengthen links not only with the existing network but with HS2, HS1 and, through Transport for the North, HS3.

Airports: London

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I am sure the noble Lord recognises, World War I was not based on a report. In this instance, the Prime Minister who leads the current Government initiated this report during the previous Government in 2012. It is an independent report. The commission took evidence. There were more than 70,000 respondents, and it is only proper that the Government should ensure that all options are carefully considered before they come to a final decision.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend tell your Lordships’ House how the date of the announcement about Heathrow will be influenced by the date of next year’s mayoral elections in London?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

All I will say to my noble friend is that, as I have said already, I would have a short ministerial career if I were to speculate on such things.

Scientific Research and Development

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Monday 7th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government play a leading role and will continue to lead on the European front. Let me give the example of our investment in the space industry specifically. A large proportion of our investment in that industry is with our European partners and the European Space Agency. We continue to collaborate across a series of different fields.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, I return to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, about whether the Government had plans to help the development of antibiotics, the urgency of which is very great. My noble friend answered by saying that health and healthcare were part of the Government’s plan but he was not specific about antibiotics. I, along with others in this House, would like an answer to that question.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

A specific question requires a specific answer and I will write specifically to the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, and indeed, to my noble friend.

Defamation Bill

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Thursday 17th January 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Mawhinney]

If peer-review is one of the principles that we want to hang on to, combating chilling effect should be another that we want to hang on to. I have no idea, and I am not competent to judge, whether the wording of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, is right and precise, but combating chilling effect ought to be deemed to be so.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I will take all three amendments together as they have been grouped. In doing so, I will refer first to Amendments 50B and 50D. They seek to provide that Clause 10 should prevent an action for damages for defamation being brought against a person who was not the author, editor or publisher of the statement complained of unless the court is satisfied that it is not reasonably practicable for an action to be brought against the author, editor or publisher, but should not prevent a court from granting any injunction or order requiring a person to cease publishing a defamatory statement.

As the noble Lord, Lord Browne, indicated, the amendments were originally tabled in Committee in the other place by the honourable Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme. His concern was that circumstances could arise where a claimant who had successfully brought an action against the author of defamatory material on a website was left in the position of being unable to secure removal of the given material. This situation might arise as a result of the fact that an author may not always be in a position to remove material which has been found to be defamatory from a website, and the new defence in Clause 5—together with the more general protection provided to secondary publishers in Clause 10—might prevent the website operator from being required to do so. As the noble Lord acknowledged, it was precisely for this reason that the Government introduced Clause 13 into the Bill on Report in the other place.

In an offline context where a successful action is brought against an author, editor or publisher and a secondary publisher is made aware of the successful action, we believe that in the great majority of cases the secondary publisher would act responsibly and remove the defamatory material from sale.

However, there are issues that still appear pending and this point has been reiterated by my noble friend Lord McNally and made by me as well. We are listening in great detail to the debates and discussions in Committee. As has been illustrated from the Government’s perspective in the other place, appropriate clauses and amendments are being introduced to refine this particular Bill if and when they are needed.

Amendment 50C is identical to the one tabled on Report in the other place. It was said then that it was in part an attempt to codify the defence of innocent dissemination. As the Government explained then, Clause 10 is about jurisdiction. To require the court, as part of an assessment on jurisdiction, to assess the merits of the case before it in the manner proposed would be highly unusual and potentially confusing. Furthermore, it would involve additional evidence and expense, which would be wasted in the event that it was held that it was reasonably practicable for the claimant to pursue the primary publisher. Such arguments are properly pursued once it is established that the court indeed has jurisdiction. Subsection (1)(c) would also put the onus on the claimant to show what was in the knowledge of the secondary publisher, which, as well as being practically very difficult, would be a significant shift in the current law.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, drew to the Committee’s attention the fact that there is a debate over the terms of Section 1 of the 1996 Act—the noble Lord, Lord Lester, referred to this as well—and how that compares to the common-law defence. A question was raised about the Government’s position. The Government believe that it is preferable to adopt the approach in Clause 10 of directing claimants towards those who are actually responsible for defamatory material. This reflects the approach that we have taken elsewhere in the Bill. In the unlikely event that it is not reasonably practicable to sue the author, editor or publisher, Clause 10 allows a claimant to bring an action against a secondary publisher, such as a bookseller. However, nothing in the clause would then prevent that bookseller from deploying any defences available to him them.

We believe that this approach strikes a fair balance that provides substantial protection for secondary publishers while not denying claimants a means of redress where this is deemed appropriate. I hope that on that basis of these explanations, the noble Lord will agree to withdraw his amendment.

Defamation Bill

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I alluded to in my opening comments, this is about getting the balance right. If there were such a case, and I totally accept that there are issues that would arise here, there would be a cost element to this process. At the same time, there are many occasions when a balance must be struck on this, whether we are looking at professional websites or websites where people often post under a pseudonym and may be posting for good reasons of safety and security to protect themselves. That being said, though, I hear what my noble friend has said. I assure him again that we continue to consult with stakeholders across the board on the contents of such regulations and have sought their views on the practicality aspect of this new process. As I have said, this is something that we are looking at, and any suggestions that are made are looked at and discussed. I am sure that we will return to this, if not in Committee then on Report.

As I have said, we are looking at the issue of whistleblowing and the necessity at times to protect confidentiality, and setting that against the very arguments that have just been put forward by my noble friend. We feel that Clause 5 strikes the right balance. As my noble friend Lord Lester said earlier, there are two sides to the coin. The process set out in Clause 5 provides a quick and easy way for the claimant to obtain the necessary detail where the poster has no objection to providing it, but then places responsibility back on the claimant to secure a court order where the poster is unwilling to share the detail. This broadly reflects the position that applies in relation to anonymous material published offline. Where a claimant is unable to identify the author of a defamatory statement, and in the offline context does not wish to pursue the publisher, they can seek a court order for release of that information by whoever is in possession of it.

Amendment 26A would make a drafting amendment to Clause 5(4), replacing “was” with “is”. I can understand why this amendment has been brought forward, but I hope that I can reassure the noble Lords on this point. When the clause refers to posting, it is the act of posting with which we are concerned. No matter whether the posting stays up or comes down, that act has happened in the past, so it is our view that “was” is the most appropriate word. The amendment however raises important questions about what a website operator’s responsibility should be where a posting has already been removed. We are seeking views as to the content of proposed regulations and will take that issue away and consider it alongside the responses that we receive.

Finally, Amendment 29, in the name of my noble friend Lord Phillips, provides that a Clause 5 defence be defeated in cases where the claimant can prove malice by or on behalf of the website operator. The Clause 5 process requires the website operator to act in accordance with the process and entirely neutrally. It is difficult to foresee circumstances in which a website operator who complied with the Clause 5 process could do so maliciously. If it is the poster who is acting with malicious intent on behalf of the website operator, the claimant will still be able to bring proceedings against the person responsible for posting the statement. Therefore, we do not see what an amendment such as this would add to the clause.

[Lord Mawhinney]

My noble friend started by saying that it was the Government’s policy to achieve a balance and he repeated that as he made his way through the amendments. It was mildly ironic that he followed immediately after the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, who read a rehash of Mumsnet evidence to the Joint Committee and finished by saying that he was doing it just to ensure balance.

On the one hand, as has been made clear, lots of organisations are saying, “Free the shackles; let us do this and that; there should be no, or minimum, restriction”. We know who is arguing for freedom to defame. On the other hand, there will be lots of individuals who find their reputations tarnished or trashed, and they will have no organisations standing up for them. Will the Government therefore argue for the individuals whose reputations are at stake to ensure that the end point is balanced? If not, how do they envisage balance, when you have got Goliath on one side and not even a mini Goliath on the other?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend for his intervention, although my recollection of the David and Goliath story is that David ended up winning. Divine intervention is always something that one should bear in mind.

Coming back to the point raised by my noble friend Lord Mawhinney about clarity and balance, as my noble friend—and indeed the whole Committee— recognises, this is a difficult area. I reiterate that the Government want to get this right and we are still taking views, as we are in this Committee, on this area. We are consulting stakeholders, as I have already said, on the content of the regulations provided for under Clause 5 and have extended the deadline for responses in this respect to 31 January. I reassure my noble friend Lord Mawhinney, whose guidance and mentoring I always welcome, that this is about ensuring that, when it comes to issues of defamation, those people who have been proven to have fallen victim are properly protected and that recourse is available. However, the balance of that has to be in ensuring that there is not too much of a burden on website operators. In some cases, as has been illustrated by other noble Lords, it is something that is, at times, beyond their control. What is important is to ensure that website operators follow the appropriate process. That said—

[Lord Mawhinney]

I thank my noble friend but encourage him to edge slightly closer to answering my question. He said a very interesting thing: that we are consulting with stakeholders and, indeed, have extended the time for consultation. That actually makes my point. The stakeholders are on one side of the argument, and the individual whose reputation is at stake is on the other side of the argument. The consultation is not even balanced. That causes, I think, concern to a number of noble Lords in this Committee. It certainly does to me, and I would like to know what constitutes balance in the mind of the Government. Incidentally, I will just throw in that we are going to have plenty of opportunity shortly to debate this Government’s theological position, and perhaps my noble friend would take a little advice: I would not go there if I was him.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Theology is always one to park, but, as a man of faith—and as a fellow man of faith—I take my noble friend’s guidance on that. The point I am making is about stakeholders—those people who are looking at this issue. Yes, it involves website operators, but the point of this clause is that it is not the website operators doing the defaming, it is the person who has written the statement. That is the person who should be held accountable and responsible. Where the website operators’ obligations come in is whether they have followed the process as detailed in Clause 5.

Coming back to the point about balance that my noble friend made, this is not just about talking to website operators but about talking as well to people who represent claimants, to ensure that those people who represent the body that feels it may be subject to such actions are also heard and that their case is also made. However, I am sure that my noble friend would agree with me that, if we started consulting every single individual who may or may not be concerned on an individual basis with this, our Committee would continue for a very long time. Nevertheless, as I have alluded to several times—and I repeat the point again—in speaking to all these amendments it is important for me to place on record that the Government are aware of the pace of change in internet and electronic communications. Even as perhaps one of the younger Members of your Lordships’ House, I remember in my professional life when the internet first came alive. Things are changing by the minute, and the pace of change is somewhat beyond even my comprehension. There are innovations in electronic communications and, as I have indicated in all my responses, in particular in response to Amendment 23A, we have an open mind in respect of terminology. In addition, we believe that putting the details of the Clause 5 process in the regulations provides greater flexibility to adjust aspects of the new procedure should that prove necessary as technology develops.

Defamation Bill

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Mawhinney

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Mawhinney]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Apropos of his comments about the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, that noble and learned Lord is not the only one who finds my noble friend’s response slightly lacking. Governments have a habit of making promises that are important, first, because they come from the Dispatch Box or whatever, and secondly, because they are important to the recipient of the promise. When those promises are not upheld to Members of this House or of the other place there is a significance to the absence, which my noble friend did not entirely encapsulate in his reply. If he will forgive me, as a friend, for saying so, conveying the Government’s understanding that breaking such a commitment is simply not acceptable probably needs more substance than a quick apology, en passant, and the promise of a letter.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend. He emphasised the word “friend” and I acknowledge this fully. I can assure the Committee that I did not intend to appear as if I did not fully understand the nature of the question put by the noble and learned Lord. If that has been communicated, I make an unreserved apology and assure the Committee that we fully acknowledge the fact that a letter should have been written to the noble and learned Lord, based on the discussions at Second Reading. I am sure that my noble friend Lord McNally has taken particular note of the comments and expressions that have been made. As a reasonably new Member of your Lordships’ House, I always welcome direction, particularly on the way that the House operates. I reiterate that I intended no discourtesy to the noble and learned Lord and thank my noble friend for his direction, which I acknowledge and will take on board. I hope that the noble and learned Lord also feels that I have acknowledged any shortcoming in my initial response.