International Development Committee: Burma Visas

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Baroness Sheehan

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord is aware that I agree with many of the sentiments he has expressed. Let me reassure him and all noble Lords that the Government continue to implore the Burmese authorities, the civilian Government and the military authorities to provide full and unfettered access to all agencies. The noble Lord talked of the United Nations, and we continue to lobby on that. While there has been some progress—for example, the visit of the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict—the access, particularly to Rakhine and northern Rakhine, has been very limited.

I can assure the noble Lord that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary remains focused on the issue of Burma. Indeed, he visited Burma recently and made it clear to the civilian authority and to Aung San Suu Kyi in particular, whom he met directly—he has spoken to her a number of times during the conflict since the summer of last year—that it was unacceptable. There is a reality check for the civilian Government. Close to 1 million Rohingya people have moved to Bangladesh since the early times of the conflict over a three-year period and it is time that they returned to Burma, but they can only do so under secure and safe protection, and that is one of the key areas of focus.

I can further assure the noble Lord because only yesterday I was at the Human Rights Council, where I met the Burmese Foreign Minister. I made it clear to him directly that we do not accept the prevailing situation. We will continue to press and to raise this issue both bilaterally and through international fora.

On the issue of DfID aid specifically, I note what the noble Lord has said. However, I am sure he will accept that some of the aid programmes focused on Burma at the moment are delivering real assistance to some of the people who need basic services such as nutrition and water supplies. I know the noble Lord agrees. He raised important issues about capacity building within the context of the Government. It is important that we retain communication lines with the Burmese authorities—the civilian authority in particular.

I can assure all noble Lords that we continue to press the Burmese authorities to ensure access for all humanitarian agencies so that people can continue to receive the aid they need.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, the inescapable fact is that the Government of Myanmar have demonstrated yet again that they wish to have unfettered freedom to persecute the Rohingya. They continue to use denial of access to quell criticism, so the International Development Committee can wear with honour the refusal of the Myanmar Government to grant it visas.

Does the Minister agree that the repatriation plan agreed by the Governments of Bangladesh and Myanmar is premature as the conditions are not there for a safe and dignified return? China continues to block resolutions in the Security Council and waters down statements critical of Myanmar’s action. Does the Minister agree that it is time to co-ordinate international action and call for the suspension of the UN veto in cases of hideous mass atrocities such as this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness on the first point: you cannot have a bilateral agreement which does not guarantee the safe and secure return of the Rohingya community and enshrine their rights within the Burmese constitution.

On her point about China, China needs to look long and hard at the humanitarian crisis prevailing in Burma. Anyone who visits Cox’s Bazar will see that humanitarian tragedy unfolding. We continue to work both bilaterally with China and through the UN Security Council to gather its support so that we see action, particularly from the military authorities in Burma.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Baroness Sheehan

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 29th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Perhaps I was not clear: that was exactly my intention. I do not want to say something from the Dispatch Box that is not accurate, so I will write to the noble and learned Lord on that particular point.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

I am a little intrepid in saying this as I am not a lawyer or a constitutional expert but this seems to be a Bill that, from a layman’s point of view, lets the Government give themselves great powers through the way it designates individuals, connecting persons through descriptions, through definitions of involved people and through clauses that give powers to amend. These include Clause 39, which gives power to amend all of Part 1 so as to authorise additional sanctions, and Clause 44(2), which gives sweeping Henry VIII powers to amend, repeal and revoke amendments and enactments. To me, this seems like Jekyll and Hyde legislation. You think you are getting one thing, yet there is every ability within the proposed Act to change itself into something quite different.

I was quite concerned in last week’s debate, when my noble friend Lady Bowles talked about how Acts could be used for unintended purposes. I recall the case of Maya Evans, who read out the names of 97 British soldiers during the remembrance ceremony at the Cenotaph in 2005. Although it was a very innocuous statement that she was making—she was protesting against Britain being taken into the Iraq war; she felt that it was illegal—she was arrested and was the first person in the UK to be convicted under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005. Also in the same year—I might embarrass the Labour Benches here—Walter Wolfgang was forcibly removed from the Labour Party conference. Again, he wanted to protest about the Iraq war, and shouted out “Nonsense!” and “That’s a lie!” during a speech made from the conference platform by Jack Straw. He was ejected and was stopped from re-entering the conference hall by a police officer citing the Terrorism Act.

From my point of view as a lay person, I am fully supportive of the well-informed noble Lords here who are leading the charge to make sure that the Bill does what it says on the tin and does not turn into a Jekyll and Hyde Bill.

[Lord Pannick]

Whether I am well informed or not, can the Minister confirm that in his response on Amendment 72 he gave a reassurance to the Committee that these powers would be used only when necessary? That was the word he used on more than one occasion. He will remember an earlier debate we had in this Committee on whether that word should be written into an earlier clause. If with the aid of parliamentary draftsmen “necessary” could be written in to confine the use of that power, it would mitigate substantially my concern about Clause 44(2); I speak only for myself. Perhaps the Minister and the Bill team could reflect on that before Report.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Baroness Sheehan

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 21st November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, my name is attached to Amendment 1A. I wish to reinforce what has been said by my noble friend Lady Northover. The regulations that the Minister will have powers to impose through Clause 1 will have far-reaching consequences on “designated persons”, “prescribed persons” and “involved persons”, as affected individuals or entities are variously referred to throughout the Bill. Therefore, it is only right that the power to create a regulation should entail a more onerous thought process than consideration by the “appropriate Minister”. I agree that “compelling reasons” would be a more fitting foundation for making such momentous decisions.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. A small point was made about what I said in my opening remarks at Second Reading about the Bill being technical. Maybe I should defend that by saying that every Bill is technical in some way and perhaps that was what I was alluding to. But I thank the noble Lord, Lord McNally, for whom I have great affection, for highlighting that point, and we live and learn through our experiences at the Dispatch Box and in the House.

As I said at Second Reading, this is a Bill that we need to get right—a point that was acknowledged by all noble Lords who have spoken. I stated that right from the outset, as I do again today, at the start of Committee. That is why I will put on record my immense thanks to noble Lords from all sides of the House who have engaged very constructively on this important Bill. I assure noble Lords that that will continue to be the case as the Bill progresses through your Lordships’ House. I thank all noble Lords—in particular the noble Lord, Lord Lennie—for recognising why we require this legislation.

After we leave the European Union we will need the Bill to ensure that we can continue to impose, amend and lift sanctions, and change our anti-money laundering framework. As noble Lords know, sanctions form part of the range of foreign policy tools that we can use in response to threats such as terrorism to the UK and UK interests. The Government fully recognise that sanctions are not to be used lightly—I assure noble Lords of that fact—and impose significant restrictions on individuals and entities. They should be imposed only after careful consideration of the political context, the desired impact and, of course, the potential risks. The Government also believe strongly that sanctions are a tool for changing unacceptable or threatening behaviour. They should not be used punitively as a substitute for criminal justice measures. A good recent example of the value of sanctions is the way that they encouraged Iran to accept constraints on its nuclear programme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am grateful for noble Lords seeking to strengthen the hand of the Minister at the Dispatch Box. I made specific note of that. I understand the reasons for wanting to go down the route of closing down designated companies and companies belonging to a designated person. However, the proposal contained in Amendments 15 and 46, and the supporting proposals in Amendments 78, 79 and 80, raise some concerns and illustrate why it may not be appropriate to accept them.

I remind noble Lords that the Bill aims to put in place the necessary powers to replicate the sanctions regimes that we currently implement as a member state of the European Union and, of course, those we are obligated to implement internationally through the UN. These amendments would go over and above the regimes and the type of sanction that the EU has put in place. It is essentially a new type of sanction and, as such, I urge a degree of caution in approaching this.

Clause 2 is about freezing assets of designated persons and preventing access to the UK’s financial markets. It is not about causing companies to cease to exist. Sanctions are intended to be temporary. That is why we have various reviews of sanction regimes set up and why they are reviewed periodically: their whole essence is to ensure that the target has changed behaviour in the desired manner. Once this change in behaviour has been achieved, sanctions may well be lifted. We do not intend to impose permanent measures that cannot be reversed. I suggest that shutting down a company is pretty irreversible.

This would be a unique power that does not exist at the United Nations or with EU sanctions. Sanctions have always been and will continue to be most effective when implemented multilaterally and with maximum consistency. Before implementing a new type of sanction, we would usually discuss with our partners whether it is effective and whether there is any appetite for it to be taken forward multilaterally. Only in very rare cases would we unilaterally introduce a new type of sanction that has effect within the UK’s jurisdiction only. Unilateral sanctions provisions such as this could also have an uncertain effect and could create difficulties for industry in general.

Dissolving a corporate entity is a permanent measure with far-reaching effects. It would also have an impact on the human rights of the people involved. Dissolving a company owned by a designated person would remove their property. Doing so without compensation would leave the Government open to a potential action for damages by a person alleging breach of their human right to ownership of their property. It is also uncertain where the property owned by the company would go and what effect this would have on the property rights of anybody involved. Accordingly, to do so may be in breach of the human rights convention.

When a company is designated under financial sanctions they will not be able to trade—that is clear—with any person connected to the UK or to any other countries that have joined us in the multilateral sanctions. We therefore feel that these measures are sufficient to ensure that the effects of the financial sanctions are maximised.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, gave a specific example about actions we can take against shell companies that, in her words, may be involved in illicit arms trading. If the arms trade is a breach of trade sanctions we will of course prosecute these companies and their directors for criminal offences using powers in the Bill and the export control order 2000, which she referred to previously.

Given my explanation, the importance of the intent, the fact that we would be creating a totally new type of sanction here and in the context of this not being something that either the UN or the EU currently designate, I hope the noble Baroness will be minded to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness Sheehan]

I thank the Minister for his reply. He said quite a lot about how we may diverge from the EU, but as I thought Brexit was about diverging from the EU and taking back control, I thought he might have welcomed the powers these amendments would confer on him.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Am I to take it that the Liberal Benches are now suggesting that that is exactly what the Government should be doing?

[Baroness Sheehan]

I am suggesting that the Liberal Benches might wish to take advantage of what the Government have been proposing when it suits our ends. This is such an important issue. We are presented with an opportunity in the Bill to do something about the illicit arms trade and arms brokering. It is a real stain on the UK that so much of that trade is facilitated here. Although I will withdraw the amendment for now, I reserve the right to come back to this issue at a later stage.

Hurricane Irma

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Baroness Sheehan

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to raise that issue. I acknowledge, and I am thankful that he accepts, the principle that some basic needs—food, water or power supply—have been addressed. I will give him a specific example to illustrate what has been done. On Anguilla, which was one of the territories affected, the first issue was about getting specific aid in terms of water and food. RFA “Mounts Bay” got the airfield up, which has allowed further access, and six tonnes of aid got through. As I indicated earlier, “Mounts Bay” returned yesterday to Anguilla for the next stage and provided building materials for essential repairs.

The noble Lord will be aware that in the Caribbean bank for reconstruction there was £300 million prior to this, all to do with infrastructure spending. Of course, we have already started the medium and long-term planning across Whitehall, looking at what options are available to ensure that as soon as we get out of the immediate emergency phase we can talk about the important element of rebuilding these communities.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, the figures for the death tolls that we have been given for both the British Overseas Territories and the Commonwealth island of Barbuda seem, mercifully, to be low. However, there are media reports which suggest that many people remain unaccounted for. I wonder whether the Minister has any indication yet of how many people remain missing and, if not, when does he expect to receive that figure?

I also ask the Minister about the 997 British military personnel that he mentioned were in the Caribbean. How many are on each of the British Overseas Territories affected by Hurricane Irma—Anguilla, British Virgin Islands, and Turks and Caicos? How many are present on the Commonwealth island of Barbuda where, in the words of the Statement, “infrastructure no longer exists”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I can give a few facts, but in the interests of time I will write to the noble Baroness with a complete answer. In the BVI, current staffing is 120 troops, which includes engineers, medics and marines. Sixteen police officers, with co-ordination from the Cayman Islands, are working with the local police—we heard earlier about the issue with the prison and the law and order situation, which is a priority. Specialist FCO staff have also provided direct and additional support to the governor in terms of the consular support. In Anguilla, there is immediate staffing of 15 military personnel; nine police officers and two FCO staff have arrived with kit, including building supplies to repair the hospital. Regarding other territories and questions, in the interests of time I will write to the noble Baroness, if I may.