Money Laundering

Debate between Lord Agnew of Oulton and Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate

Thursday 13th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

I am sure the noble Lord will be aware that a number of very substantial fines have been levied for breaching money laundering regulations over the last few years. In 2020, Goldman Sachs was fined £48 million; in 2019, Standard Chartered was fined £102 million; and, even in the last few weeks, NatWest was handed a fine of £264 million. This just emphasises our commitment to dealing with this whole area.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, having had the dubious privilege of being one of those who helped to draft the anti-money laundering directives in Brussels, and thereby finding himself described by friends as an expert in money laundering, may I enquire about the word “proportional”, which appears in the directive? Does my noble friend feel that that word is being properly applied by our financial institutions to small investors and those who will never be engaged in money laundering? Does he think that that is balanced and fair and that we have the right approach?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

I would certainly defer to my noble friend as someone who is an expert in this area, which I am not. It is extremely difficult to get the right balance in these things, because what one person would consider an intrusion, another would consider a protection. We have to remain alert and sensitive to the different forces, but what is most important is that we have a coherent system which is clamping down on an extremely complex and fast-evolving crime.

Cash Network

Debate between Lord Agnew of Oulton and Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, it is not difficult to open a bank account. What we need to do is keep encouraging these elderly people who do not have an account yet to open one.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

I congratulate my noble friend on the work he is doing in this regard, but surely we should keep from retailers the costs from the banks themselves for handling cash, which seem to be an impediment. Does my noble friend agree that there is still some reluctance, following the Covid crisis, about handling cash? Is anything being done to reassure the public that it is safe to handle cash?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, I think what has happened is that people have discovered the ease of not using cash for a number of transactions. Indeed, retailers would not be turning down cash if their customers were objecting to it.

Children: Rights and Well-being

Debate between Lord Agnew of Oulton and Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate

Thursday 9th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, we are committed to social care; it is one of our top priorities. In the settlement for 2020-21, we see the largest rise in core spending since 2015; a real-terms increase of 4.3%. On top of that, we are investing £84 million in targeted, evidence-based interventions to improve the support provided to vulnerable children and their families and to enable more children to stay at home, thriving with those families.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, in 1996, I had the privilege of representing this country at the congress that took place on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child in Stockholm. We in this country were proud of our presentation on that occasion, and we should continue to be proud of the efforts we have made in relation to the rights of the child, both domestically and elsewhere. Is it not a good idea that we should perhaps have a more comprehensive review, to make sure that we bring together in a more co-ordinated fashion all the elements throughout our departments which protect children?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

I agree with my noble friend that this is a continuous effort that needs to go across government. We know that government can be weak across departmental initiatives, and I completely agree that we should do everything we can to strengthen that.

National School Breakfast Programme

Debate between Lord Agnew of Oulton and Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate

Thursday 5th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

The noble Baroness makes important points. There is both a macro and a micro issue here. For example, today I looked at the LIFFE futures price for wheat: it is £130 a tonne. When I last worked on my father’s farm in 1978 it was about £100 a tonne. Food has never been cheaper. We have had a revolution in the provision of food in this country and, indeed, in the western world. We need to understand why these families are struggling to produce meals at home. A great deal of that centres around education. I appeared before a Select Committee yesterday on holiday hunger and we need to learn a lot more about this. We have introduced the infant free school meals in the past couple of years. That programme is feeding 1.5 million children and has an 85% take-up.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that much of the funding for these schemes comes from the soft drinks industry? Can he confirm that it is difficult to avoid a conflict of interest when those that might be providing sustenance which is not always as healthy as it should be are involved in schemes such as these?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

The noble Lord is quite right. I should perhaps declare my own interest as someone who grows 3,500 tonnes of sugar beet every year. Of course, a lot of that sugar does not go to the right places. The levy is designed as a pump-primer for the system. We want to see this money encouraging schools to start breakfast clubs that are sustainable in the long term. Noble Lords will be aware that we have just announced a tremendous funding settlement for schools over the next three years. I am confident that there are now resources coming into schools that will enable them to sustain them.

Schools: Modern Languages

Debate between Lord Agnew of Oulton and Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate

Tuesday 9th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I am not a fuddy-duddy, but, while I appreciate and support more modern foreign languages being taught, does my noble friend not agree that the standard of English, particularly its grammar, in our schools and universities is now at its lowest level for a long time? Would he not agree therefore that we perhaps also ought to encourage the study of the classical languages, such as Latin, which helps all students understand English grammar better?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My noble friend is right; I do not think he is being a fuddy-duddy at all. We have seen a degradation in grammar; I am a martinet in the department when I receive poorly written subs—I send them straight back. I commend to the House the small charity Classics for All, which is doing as my noble friend suggested—taking Latin into areas of deprivation. I have a few references to it here which might hearten him:

“What I hadn’t expected when I started teaching Latin classes here was the students’ sheer joy of learning Latin for its intrinsic beauty and the excitement of etymology! Students actually love declining and conjugating. They see a beauty in the language of ancient poets and warriors”.


Even a child, Mohammed, said:

“I just love it. It’s just fun”.


I did not have the same experience when I was learning Latin.