Road Vehicles and Non-Road Mobile Machinery (Type-Approval) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(5 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their consideration of the draft regulations. The regulations will ensure that we can continue to control the registration of vehicles in the UK and also to combat climate change in the transport sector after we leave the European Union. I shall now respond to some of the points raised.
The issue of type approval and the standards that apply was raised by many noble Lords. Future changes to the standards that apply to vehicles approved and registered in the UK will be laid before Parliament for approval in the form of statutory instruments. At the point when we leave the EU, all existing standards, including those for safety and environmental performance, will continue to be applied to new vehicles registered in the UK. There will not be a drop in standards or a resultant effect on road safety or environmental performance when we leave the EU.
As for future decisions on remaining aligned with EU standards, it will be for the Government to propose legislation for Parliament’s consideration, and the process by which the legislation will be considered will be an SI, subject to the affirmative procedure, establishing a new full UK approval scheme. As discussed, that will be laid later this year. I reassure noble Lords that, as has been highlighted, the SI will create an interim arrangement, which will be valid for a maximum of two years. The department is undertaking a comprehensive review and reworking the UK’s type-approval arrangements in the case of a no-deal outcome, in order to ensure continuity for manufacturers. This absolutely is about maintaining the status quo. That is why we are having the interim measure for two years.
The review is not intended to make policy changes. We would remain aligned with existing standards, but we would amend the retained EU legislation on type approval, which runs to 3,700 pages, to eliminate remaining deficiencies and, if possible, to streamline the legislation to make it more accessible. There will, of course, be a formal consultation on that process, to ensure that we get it right. This is an interim measure for two years, maintaining the status quo pending a large piece of work with a formal consultation to ensure that, should we leave with no deal, we would have the best possible functioning type-approval system.
Lord Adonis
But what is the point? Why not simply continue to maintain EU 27 approvals? If we do not intend to diverge, what is the point of this big piece of work?
Baroness Sugg
By leaving the European Union through the European Union (Withdrawal) Act, we will take EU legislation on to our statute book. So we are carefully looking at that legislation to make sure that it functions in the best way for us. As I said, this is not intended to make policy changes and is intended to remain aligned with existing standards. But there are more than 3,700 pages of type approvals, and we want to make sure that they function correctly on our statute book. That is a significant piece of work, which we will be doing alongside a formal consultation to make sure that this continues to function.
The consultation on type approval was conducted by discussions and working groups, largely through the main UK trade bodies covering the various categories of vehicle that require type approval. We have had a range of meetings that included members of the SMMT, the Motorcycle Industry Association and the Agricultural Engineers Association. Through these meetings, we refined our proposals and addressed sector-specific issues as well as informing people what is expected in a no-deal scenario. Obviously, we have also spoken to the European trade associations.
Baroness Sugg
Before, it was for the whole of the EU. Now it will be for the UK only, so this is a temporary measure until the new type-approval statutory instrument comes in.
Lord Adonis
The Minister referred to a statutory instrument, but the regulation refers to legislation. What is the relationship between the legislation, which is scheduled for mid-2019, so will be introduced very shortly, and the statutory instrument to which she referred?
Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)
My Lords, these draft regulations will be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. They also make amendments under the European Communities Act 1972. They amend EU Regulation 561/2006, which sets out driving time rules for commercial drivers, and EU Regulation 165/2014, which sets out rules on the use of the tachograph device used for the enforcement of driving time rules.
Drivers’ hours rules are central to keeping our roads safe. They set maximum driving times and minimum break and rest times for most commercial drivers of both lorries and coaches. Of course, the consequences of driving any vehicle when fatigued can be catastrophic. These rules are enforced by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency and the police at targeted roadside checks, as well as by visiting operators’ premises. The principal tool used by enforcement officers is the record generated by the tachograph.
The regulations would make three broad categories of amendments. First, the draft instrument would make the necessary changes so that the EU regulations retained in UK law by the withdrawal Act continue to function correctly after exit day. For example, EU processes, such as the need for the UK to seek authorisation from the European Commission for exemptions, have been removed. Secondly, the regulations would amend domestic legal provisions, also using the powers of the EU withdrawal Act. Under the current EU regulations, member states put in place effective and proportionate enforcement provisions themselves. In Great Britain, this has been done by means of criminal offences set out in primary legislation and a fixed penalty regime in secondary legislation. Particularly important amendments need to be made to these domestic enforcement provisions to make them work in a non-EU context. Thirdly, the regulations would make changes to domestic law under the European Communities Act 1972. These changes are required to update the legal provisions that implement EU law ahead of exit day so that the regime is fully effective and enforceable.
In addition to containing the directly applicable rules I have already mentioned, EU law includes the obligation on member states to apply the wider United Nations AETR agreement on drivers’ hours rules. With the UK outside the EU, this wider international agreement will in future cover transport operations between the UK and the EU. The majority of the changes here are to ensure that there are explicit domestic provisions, including offences and penalties, to fully implement the AETR agreement. The AETR driving time and tachograph rules mirror the equivalent EU regulations, so this legal change would not affect the regulatory obligations of the drivers and operators in scope of the rules.
While the need for these amendments is particularly important in the context of EU exit, they are in any event legally required under the UK’s current international obligations.
To conclude, the regulations are essential to ensure that the EU regulations on drivers’ hours, and the tachographs used to enforce them, continue to work effectively in the UK from exit day in the event of no deal. These rules are at the heart of the road safety regime for commercial vehicles.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
The Minister referred to the regime in respect of tachographs. Paragraph 2.7(a) of the Explanatory Memorandum states that,
“this includes amendments to criminal offences in relation to the use of tachographs”.
I take “amendments” to mean changes to the existing regime for criminal offences. Can the Minister say what will change, or are the amendments technical with no changes to criminal offences?
Baroness Sugg
The penalties precisely mirror those already in place for the existing equivalent offences. For tachographs, the penalty for breaches of the type-approval rules follows the legislation already in place for the type approval of motor vehicles. The fixed-penalty amounts for infringements of the AETR are the same as for infringements of the equivalent EU rules. I am happy to go through this in detail if the noble Lord would like; I expect he would.
Lord Adonis
So there were no changes in the actual impact of criminal offences on the individual, either in terms of the offences or the penalties?
Baroness Sugg
I will go through it in detail. A number of the provisions and offences in Part VI of the Transport Act are being amended to ensure that the AETR is fully applied in the UK, as I mentioned earlier. The existing measures, which make provision in relation to the EU regulation, are amended so as also to refer to the AETR provision: Section 96, which contains the offences of non-compliance with the EU and AETR drivers’ rules; Section 97C, which requires drivers to provide tachograph records to employers; Section 97G, which requires operators to ensure the data is downloaded from tachographs; Section 97H, which requires the production to an officer of downloaded tachograph data; and Section 99ZE, which prohibits the creation of false tachograph records and data. Those are the criminal offences being amended to make sure they are in line with the AETR rules.
Baroness Sugg
No, I did not mean to say that. As I said, there will be no change for drivers from these regulations; the rules will stay the same. The EU rules are the same as the AETR rules.
The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, asked questions on divergence. We are not committing to following the EU rules. In the future, the Government will consider on a case-by-case basis how the UK might choose to respond to any changes in EU regulations. These regulations do not oblige the Government to remain aligned to the EU rules, but they do oblige the UK to remain aligned to the AETR rules. We are a contracting party to the AETR, and those wider international rules will underpin all transport operations between the UK and the EU after exit. At present, the AETR is aligned to the EU rules: the rules on driving time, rest time and requirements for the use and installation of tachographs are the same.
Lord Adonis
I had not understood that important distinction. Why, as a matter of policy, are we committing in advance to mimic the AETR rules when we are not committing to mimic any EU rules? Is it an ideological issue about an international body being superior to the European Union, or what?
Baroness Sugg
No, it is not. For many standards, whether it is UNECE standards or the AETR, we are a contracting party. If we leave the European Union without a deal, we will not be a member of the EU and so will not be following its regulations. But we will be following a broader group—those of the AETR.
Lord Adonis
This is important. Does an international treaty requirement or obligation apply to the United Kingdom? If not—to ask the question again—why have the Government decided to follow the AETR rules? If it is a discretionary matter, why are they not going to follow changes to EU rules, given that most of our lorry traffic is to the continent of Europe—in other words, to the European Union? It does not make obvious sense.
Baroness Sugg
All EU countries are party to the AETR and practically all international road freight beginning or ending in the UK begins or ends in an AETR country. As I said, if we leave the European Union without a deal, we will no longer be a member and so it would not be appropriate to follow the EU regulations. We have chosen instead to follow the same regulations under the international AETR body, which is a UN body.
Lord Adonis
I am sorry to interrupt again, but this is a point that will be picked up outside. Are the AETR rules and the EU rules the same?
Baroness Sugg
As I said, they are currently aligned. Rules on driving time, rest time and requirements for the use and installation of tachographs are the same in the AETR and the EU rules. Obviously, I cannot predict what might happen in the future, but we are a contracting party to the AETR, and those wider international rules will underpin transport operations between the UK and the EU after exit.
I think I have answered all the questions. As I have said previously and will no doubt say again, the Government are working to agree a deal with the European Union. But while we do that, and until we have final agreement, it is important that we prepare for the possibility that we will leave with no deal. These regulations are essential to ensure that the drivers’ hours rules will continue to underpin our road safety regime for commercial vehicles. I commend the regulations to the House.
Motor Vehicles (Compulsory Insurance) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(5 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
I agree with the noble Baroness that the Government have a responsibility to ensure that people are aware of this. A communications campaign was launched in February, which has notified citizens about how the changes to claims can be pursued. It advises that in the event of a no-deal exit, UK residents involved in a road accident while abroad would need to bring their claim in the country concerned. That campaign is live, with radio, digital and social media. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, heard an advert on Spotify, as he mentioned in a previous debate. We are also directing stakeholders to an external site where they can download and share information with their clients; we will continue to do that.
This is an area where we continue to pursue agreements with other EU countries: we are pursuing bilateral agreements and the MIB is having those conversations with its EU equivalents. The nature of the conversations is sensitive, involving the reciprocal payments of insurance claims; that is why the specific detail has not been published. As I say, we acknowledge that this is not an ideal outcome for citizens. It is a sensible alternative, after weighing up the options, but achieving a deal remains our greatest priority.
The impact assessment lays out the five options that we considered, including a “do nothing” policy, but in each there would be a direct cost to victims of traffic accidents. People are still able to make claims, but they will have to do that in another country. I am not able to give a specific cost. The noble Baroness is correct to point out that this equates to 5,000 motorists a year. The additional costs incurred by a victim would depend on a number of factors and the complexity of the case.
On green cards, the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, quite rightly quoted the comments from the SLSC report, which were put in the new Explanatory Memorandum. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, was quite right to point out that this SI does not equate to green cards, but I am happy to address it briefly. The Government want to remain part of the green card free-circulation area. We meet all the requirements needed to remain part of it when we leave the EU. That has not yet been agreed by the Commission; we very much hope that it agrees that soon. They can be obtained from insurers, free of charge. The noble Lord is quite right to point out that that could mean 2 million to 4 million green cards. We are working very closely with insurance companies to ensure that people are informed of this. My noble friend Lady Barran, our new Whip, received such a contact from the insurance industry very recently. However, this is something that we want to avoid and that is why we are very hopeful that the Commission will agree that the UK can remain part of the green card free-circulation area. Again, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, pointed out, this is not in our gift. We match the requirements that are needed, but need the EU to recognise that.
I think I have answered all the questions raised.
Baroness Sugg
On Northern Ireland and specifically the Good Friday agreement, which I think the noble Lord pointed to, the Commission and the UK have said that they will respect the Good Friday agreement, and currently—the noble Lord is right to point out—there would be a requirement to carry a green card. However, the implementing decision from the Commission to recognise the UK as part of a green card circulation area would remove the need for that green card. As I said previously, we meet all the requirements of that, and are working with the Commission to make that agreement.
I think I have answered all the questions; if I have not I will follow up in writing. I will end as I started: I recognise that this is not an ideal situation; it is not one that we want to be in. We think this is the right decision, given the implications of leaving the motor insurance directive—something that will happen if we leave the European Union without a deal—and that is why the Government are working to ensure that we achieve a deal with the European Union. I beg to move.
Merchant Shipping (Marine Equipment) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)
My Lords, these regulations will be made under powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act, and are needed if we leave the EU without a deal. Marine equipment, as we are discussing today, is the collective term used to describe a ship’s safety and pollution prevention equipment. Examples include lifejackets, fire extinguishers and navigation lights.
Marine equipment is regulated globally by the International Maritime Organization, the IMO, under three international conventions: the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships and the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea. Collectively, these international conventions require flag state administrations, such as the UK, to ensure that marine equipment complies with certain safety requirements regarding design, construction and performance standards; and to issue the relevant certification before equipment is installed on board a ship flying its flag. The flag state in the UK for these purposes is the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, the MCA.
Historically, each EU maritime administration had its own systems and requirements for the approval or conformity assessment of marine equipment. To help the free movement of goods, the EU adopted legislation to harmonise the way in which EU member states implement the IMO conventions. This legislation allows member states to designate conformity assessment bodies on behalf of the EU to issue an EU-wide approval for marine equipment.
Marine equipment approved in accordance with the EU legislation may be installed on any EU-registered ship, and the international obligation of each EU member can be discharged accordingly. The MCA, on behalf of the Secretary of State, has designated 10 conformity bodies for the EU which approve marine equipment in the UK. In the event of no deal, the MCA intends to convert these 10 bodies from EU-notified bodies to UK-approved bodies, to allow for continuity in the method of approval for marine equipment in the UK, and to ensure that the UK continues to meet its international obligation.
The MCA regularly meets with these 10 bodies and has kept them informed of the proposals. The 10 bodies have been supportive to ensure that the UK continues to have a functioning statute book. Similarly, the MCA regularly meets with manufacturers of marine equipment, and has received only positive feedback on the proposed instrument.
The EU directive 2014/90, known as the marine equipment directive, and related legislation established the harmonised EU system, criteria for designating conformity assessment bodies, mechanisms for ensuring the compliance of equipment, and remedial measures for removing risks to the safety of life. The regulations in this case, which this SI is changing, includes the Merchant Shipping (Marine Equipment) Regulations 2016, which implement the 2014 marine equipment directive in UK law. The Act also makes provision in Section 8 for regulations to correct deficiencies in retained EU law arising from the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.
These regulations make the changes needed to the marine equipment regulatory framework to adapt the EU approval system to one that can function effectively as a UK approval system, if we leave without a deal. The regulations retain the status quo as far as possible to avoid market confusion and allow continuity of operations for manufacturers. Specifically, the regulations do not change the design, construction and performance standards applicable to marine equipment; the methods for conformity assessment of marine equipment; the requirements to become a designated conformity assessment body; and the mechanisms for protecting the UK market against fraudulent or unsafe equipment. The regulations will allow UK ships to continue to use marine equipment that has been approved under the EU system. However, the regulations also establish a new approval system. The regulations make changes needed to ensure the UK approval system works, for example by changing references to “member state” and “the Commission” to “the United Kingdom” and “Secretary of State”.
Noble Lords may be aware that, once again, the SLSC recommended that these regulations be upgraded to the affirmative procedure. Again, I am grateful to the committee for its careful consideration of the regulations. The committee noted that in a no-deal situation it is the Government’s long-term aim that UK ships will use the UK approval system only. The committee was concerned about the additional costs for manufacturers that might need to seek an EU approval as well as a UK approval. As we set out in the new Explanatory Memorandum, the regulations before the committee do not place any limit on how long the UK ships can use EU-approved equipment. Therefore, there will be no additional costs for manufacturers as a result of this SI. If anything were to change in the future, the Government would introduce regulations to remove the time limit only after widespread consultation and careful consideration of the costs and benefits.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
The Minister said that there would be no additional costs to manufacturers. But will there be additional costs to ship owners—that is, to the consumers?
Baroness Sugg
I thank noble Lords for their consideration of the final regulations of this evening. International conventions require each flag state administration to approve marine equipment, and once we have left the EU it would not be appropriate for the UK to fulfil its international obligations through an EU system that we can no longer influence. That is why we are setting up the UK system. It will allow the 10 UK-based conformity assessment bodies to continue offering services to the UK market. If we allowed only EU-approved equipment, those bodies would be in the strange position of having to relocate to the EU to provide to the UK market.
We understand that we need to ensure that the UK bodies can continue to offer EU-approved equipment. The new regulations apply both to existing ships and new ships, which will all be able to use either EU-approved equipment or UK-approved equipment. That does not have a time limit currently. The Government will consider whether we should move towards the UK system, but that would be done only after very careful consideration and consultation with the industry.
There will be no reduction in standards under the regulations. As I said in my opening statement, they retain the existing international standards set at IMO level, and that is what we will stick to. They apply the same familiar process and procedures to marine equipment approvals, to minimise disruption to industry. As the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, noted, some of the 10 UK-based EU-notified bodies have a global client base—and long may that continue. They are global operations and have offices internationally. We anticipate that some of the UK-based notified bodies with offices in the EU will make contingency plans to enable them to maintain their EU-notified body status, but we have no information about any of the UK-based notified bodies moving there. These are global companies that provide to a global market, and we expect them to be able to continue to do so.
Both the EU system and the new UK system are established on IMO standards, so manufacturers do not need to produce to two standards. A UK manufacturer may maintain its existing EU approval and keep EU market access, while also maintaining UK market access.
No formal consultation has been done on this instrument, but the MCA and the department regularly meet the assessment bodies and the manufacturers. Both groups recognise that the regulations are needed to maintain the status quo, and I am pleased to be able to say to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, on our final SI this evening, that both the UK Chamber of Shipping and Nautilus, the seafarers union, are participants in the MCA industry committees, and have been consulted. These meetings occur very frequently, every three to six months.
This statutory instrument is necessary: if the House does not approve it, there will be no legal basis for UK notified bodies to continue operating in the country. The companies and those who work for them would therefore face uncertainty. If this SI were not approved, we would not be able to accept equipment from the EU or investigate non-compliance. So it is essential. We have not carried out a full impact assessment of the regulations because their purpose, intent and real-world effect is to do everything possible to minimise cost and disruption. Noble Lords should be aware that the impacts and costs to business of not making these regulations would be significantly higher—as I said, it would lead to uncertainty.
I hope that I have managed to address the points that have been raised. I thank all noble Lords who contributed to the transport SI debates. I am genuinely grateful for their scrutiny; these are important pieces of secondary legislation, and the House is certainly doing its job in scrutinising them. Marine equipment approvals are, of course, vital to ensuring the safety of those on board ships and the protection of the marine environment. I hope that noble Lords will agree that this SI is essential to ensure that the legislation on marine equipment approvals will continue to work effectively in the UK in the event of no deal.
Lord Adonis
My Lords, I join in the appreciation of the Minister for the meticulous way in which she has handled our debates this evening. However, I want to clarify one point: that when the Explanatory Memorandum uses the word “choice”, it means that there will indeed be a choice on an ongoing basis, and that ships and their owners will be able to choose whether they have EU-approved and certified or UK-certified equipment—they will not have to shift from one to the other by virtue of the fact that they are purchasing the equipment after exit day.
Baroness Sugg
That is indeed the case. They have a choice: UK or EU. That is for new and existing ships and there is no time limit on that choice through the regulations.
Lord Adonis
My Lords, I thank the Minister for clarifying that point. My one final remark is that a felicitous moment in the debate was the revelation that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, is an Elder Brother of Trinity House. He shares that great distinction with Sir Winston Churchill, who used to appear frequently in the uniform of an Elder Brother of Trinity House. I hope that the noble and learned Lord might do so in future in the House, so that his great and esteemed rank is fully on display. On that note, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(5 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister is talking about EEA-registered operators that operate in the UK. An issue was raised in the House of Commons about whether there would be full ATOL protection in respect of people purchasing packages in the UK under those EEA-registered operators. The Minister there was not able to give an answer but said that he would write to MPs. I have not seen a copy of that letter—could the Minister tell us the answer to that specific point, which of course will be quite significant if there is no deal?
Baroness Sugg
I hope I can answer the noble Lord’s question. Those EU and EEA companies which sell package holidays in the UK will need to be covered by the ATOL scheme. They will need to apply for an ATOL from the CAA. We believe that there are only about 13 such companies.
Lord Adonis
Is the Minister saying that that will be a requirement under these regulations? Is she saying that there will be full ATOL protection for all passengers and purchasers of package holidays in that eventuality?
Baroness Sugg
Yes, that is what I am saying. As I said, at the moment there are only 13 EEA-established businesses currently selling to the UK that would be affected by the requirement, and the CAA is used to processing around 1,000 cases a year. Therefore, in answer to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, the CAA is confident that it is fully resourced to achieve this.
Baroness Sugg
They will remain the same. The flight operating into the UK from a third country will be enforced by the CAA, and a flight operating into the EU would be covered by that EU member state. I understand that this is a little complex, so I will list exactly what will be covered.
But before doing that, on code sharing, asked by my noble friend Lady Altmann, the carrier operating the flight will be liable under the regulation, irrespective of who sold the ticket.
I will attempt to be a little clearer than I was in my opening speech. This regulation will apply to: all flights departing a UK airport; flights to the UK from a country other than the UK if on a UK air carrier; flights to EU airports from a country other than the UK if on a UK air carrier; and flights to UK airports from a country other than the UK if on an EU air carrier. That applies to passengers of any nationality.
So in answer to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, about who will be disadvantaged by this, in short no one will be adversely affected. The aim of this SI is absolutely to maintain continuity after exit day. In the event of no deal, passengers will retain the same rights as they have today. In the event of a deal, which will obviously get us to an implementation period, this SI along with many others will be amended or revoked.
I take the point made by my noble friend Lord Deben that all things aviation will not stay the same in the event of no deal. That is why we are trying to avoid that. But in the case of this SI, the rights will stay the same—
Lord Adonis
The Minister says that no one will be adversely affected. I accept that in response to all carriers or travel businesses that are registered in the United Kingdom, but if a UK resident buys a ticket or a package from a company or carrier that is registered only in the EU or EEA, they may well suffer diminution of their rights. Is that correct?
Baroness Sugg
All EEA and EU companies which sell in the UK will be required to have an ATOL scheme licence.
Lord Adonis
If, after a no-deal Brexit, a UK citizen buys a package or flight from an operator which is in the EU or EEA but which is not registered in the United Kingdom, we have no guarantee that there will be reciprocal continuation of ATOL rights.
Baroness Sugg
Each member state has its own version of ATOL, and the companies which sell in that member state are obliged to follow it. In the event of no deal, there will not be mutual recognition; that is simply one of the consequences of no deal. Those companies will be covered by the EU regulations. I said that no one is affected, but some of the companies which sell into the UK will need to get an ATOL licence. However, for air carriers, airports and passengers, there is no change to the routes on which the regulations apply. After exit day, in the event of no deal, the combined scope of UK and EU legislation on air passenger rights will be the same as under the current EU regulation. I hope that is a slightly simpler explanation than the one in my opening speech.
My noble friend Lord Balfe is right that, in the event of no deal, this simply takes a snapshot in time. I agree with him and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, that what happens in the EU in future will affect the UK, whether that is a change in currency exchange or EU law. However, that is something for the future; it may well depend on a future aviation agreement, if we end up with no deal. I am afraid I cannot predict the future, so I cannot say how we may respond to any future change in EU law. What I can say is that this statutory instrument does not contain any powers to make further SIs, and any future changes are likely to require primary legislation and would therefore have sufficient parliamentary scrutiny. However, I take the noble Baroness’s point that changes in the EU regime will have an effect on us.
On the issue of confidence in booking flights, we are completely focused on ensuring that there is no disruption of aviation, as this would be in nobody’s interest. In our technical notices last summer, we confirmed that we envisage granting permits to EU carriers to operate in the UK, and we have seen the EU take similar steps to avoid disruption. There were Commission communications on the EU’s preparedness in November and it has said it intends to bring forward measures to allow UK air carriers to continue to fly to the EU. Most recently, this includes its no-deal contingency plan, which was published on 19 December. Detailed EU regulations are being discussed in the Parliament and the Council at the moment. We welcome those proposals, which will ensure that flights between the UK and the EU are maintained. There are a number of pieces of clear evidence that both sides in aviation are determined to ensure we maintain air connectivity.
We work very closely with the aviation industry, which shares our confidence that arrangements will be in place to avoid disruption to flights. I take the point from the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, that many conversations about aviation—those that he has had and those that others will have in future—take place at a European level and, indeed, an international level, at ICAO. We hope to continue our close relationship on aviation with all our European partners, regardless of how we leave the European Union.
On the noble Lord’s point about consultation, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, was quite right to say that the same text is used here and in the next SI. As you would expect, I meet people from across the aviation sector very regularly, whether from airlines, airports or industry groups such as the Airport Operators Association and Airlines UK. We have not had meetings specifically about single SIs—there are quite a few of them—but we are discussing our SI programme with the aviation sector and sharing our plans with it. Throughout our SI programme, and certainly in aviation, we are replicating the current situation so that there will be no change. The compensation is perhaps not universally popular among our airlines, but they accept that the important thing is to maintain continuity, so that passengers and airlines understand what will happen. That is what we have been trying to do.
On communications, I agree with the noble Lords, Lord McNally and Lord Warner, that it is really important that we keep consumers informed. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, highlighted one of those adverts on Spotify; there are others. We have a cross-government campaign putting out the information that is available on GOV.UK, and we are also working very closely with airlines and consumer groups to ensure that the right information is available. For example, Thomas Cook has a very good Q&A section around Brexit on its website. We are trying—
Seaborne Freight
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(5 years, 11 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, we are absolutely confident that it is fully compliant. We duly published the details of the contract. As with many operators in the maritime sector, it is not uncommon for it not to own its own vessels. Many operators charter them through third parties, as Seaborne is doing.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, who is paying for the dredging at Ramsgate? The noble Baroness did not answer that question.
Baroness Sugg
It is not part of this contract. I believe that the cost is around £1.5 million. I will have to get back to the noble Lord with the exact details of who will pay for it.
HS2: Budget and Costs
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, what is needed is a step change in railway capacity, and HS2 will deliver this way beyond what would be delivered by improving existing lines. I am afraid to inform my noble friend that the Government are committed to delivering HS2. It remains on track, with strong cross-party support. The new railway line will bring huge economic benefits that will be felt across the country.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, I hope that the Minister will stand by HS2 as one of the great things that is happening in the country at the moment. In this dismal decade of Brexit and austerity, two of the shining lights that people will remember are the Olympic Games and HS2. One of the leading figures responsible for delivering both of them is Sir David Higgins, who will stand down as the chairman of HS2 Ltd at the end of this month. Will the Minister convey to Sir David the thanks of this House and the country for his brilliant work on our behalf in helping both to deliver the Olympic Games and to equip us with 21st century infrastructure? It is about time, after the intervening 20th century, that we started to mirror once again the great achievements of the Victorians.
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I pay tribute to the part that the noble Lord played in HS2. I will certainly pass on his good wishes to the outgoing chairman. This is one of the biggest infrastructure projects that our country has ever seen. Eventually, more than 100 million people are expected to use HS2 trains when the network is fully completed.
Rail Update
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(6 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, there is a huge amount of waffle in the Statement that the noble Baroness has just repeated. But I shall cut through it: Chris Grayling, the Secretary of State, is undertaking another unjustified bailout of Virgin and Stagecoach at the expense of taxpayers. I would like to ask the noble Baroness a few questions about this bailout. First, will she confirm that Virgin has been awarded its new contract for the west coast main line without any competition whatever? Secondly, will she confirm that Stagecoach is being allowed to bid for the next three franchises despite walking away from the east coast main line? Thirdly, will she confirm that Mr Grayling appears, astonishingly, to be prepared to allow Stagecoach to continue operating the east coast line despite walking away from it, and that he has not ruled this out, although he is putting in place legal procedures that look to me to be the prelude to re-awarding it the contract? Fourthly—this affects my tenure in the office of Secretary of State personally—will she confirm that it is quite wrong to say that National Express was not banned by me from bidding for future contracts in 2009? It was banned. The incoming Conservative Government in 2010 lifted that ban, which is a fundamentally different point. I believe that that was a mistake and that it has prepared the way for the problems that we face today.
Finally, will the noble Baroness confirm that the reason for these disgraceful bailouts which we have seen from Mr Grayling is because he simply is not prepared to contemplate putting his duty above ideology and substituting for failing private companies a state company? This is not a matter of being left-wing or right-wing; it is a matter of him performing his duties as Secretary of State for Transport, which he is declining to do because, as we heard in the Statement, he wants to make a whole set of cheap points about “private good, public bad”, which I think demean his office and are costing the taxpayer very dearly indeed.
Baroness Sugg
I will attempt to answer the questions the noble Lord raises. If I do not manage to answer all of them, I will certainly follow up in writing.
I am afraid that we do not recognise the bailout accusation. As I said, Stagecoach will be held to all its contractual obligations in full. It has returned nearly £1 billion to the taxpayer and resulted in a nearly £200 million loss to the parent company. On the west coast line, it was a direct award and no other bidder was involved. As we stated in December 2016, we set out the plans to award the West Coast Partnership with that direct award. It is a short-term award and there was no other bidder involved. It was put in place before the new West Coast Partnership was awarded. On whether Stagecoach was allowed to bid for continued franchises, as we said, it will bid for the new east Midlands franchise. We are keeping the legal advice on that under review, and we will see what happens in the coming months, but as things stand Stagecoach is bidding for future franchises. The Secretary of State quoted the 2009 NAO report. I will send the noble Lord a copy.
Lord Adonis
It is not correct for the noble Baroness to say that National Express was not banned from bidding. It was banned from bidding.
Railways: Fares
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(7 years ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, the retail prices index is widely used across government and is the consistent general indexation approach adopted across the rail industry. Franchise payments, network grants and franchise financial models are all indexed at RPI. Of course, we are all very aware of the pressures on people’s incomes and we carefully monitor how rail fares and earnings change and keep reviewing how fares are increased.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the extraordinary decision to bail out the Stagecoach/Virgin Trains East Coast franchise could cost the taxpayer more than £1 billion? Could she estimate for the House what impact that might have on rail fares after 2020?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, VTEC has paid all its premiums in full to date, and we expect it to continue to do so as long as the contract continues. As with all recent franchise contracts, when entering into the east coast contract Stagecoach committed to inject additional funds into the business at its own expense, and we will hold it to that commitment in full. From 2020, there will be a new east coast partnership, one of the first of a new generation of integrated regional rail operations. That will include appropriate contributions from the private partner under a long-term competitively priced procured contract. I do not recognise the figures that the noble Lord uses.
Railways: Update
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(7 years ago)
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Baroness Sugg
My noble friend will not be surprised to hear that I do not agree with him on the benefits of HS2; nor do I recognise the £100 billion figure that he quotes. Our trains are becoming increasingly crowded, and that is why we need HS2. We have invested £55 billion in it, but that is not at the cost of other improvements in our rail network. The announcements we have made today will enable both HS2 and our existing railways to improve.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness on her appointment to the best department in the Government, the Department for Transport. I also welcome what she said about HS2 and east-west rail. Is she aware that when this House voted on HS2, it voted by a majority of 10 to one in favour of the project? That is a degree of unanimity that the House has shown on no other subject that I am aware of—besides its opposition to Brexit.
However, I find the Statement disappointing, because the document that the Government have published today is, essentially, a smokescreen, with all the blather about reopening Beeching lines—which, of course, is not going to happen. It is a smokescreen for a very big announcement, which is detectable only in the small print: that the Government intend to end the current east coast franchise three years early. They intend to do so—forfeiting hundreds of millions of pounds of payments that would have been made to the Department for Transport—in order, it appears, to bail out the two private companies that currently operate that route, in the guise of a public/private partnership that will do nothing other than excuse those companies from making the premium payments to which they were previously committed.
Does the Minister understand that treating private companies in this way in respect of contracts they have entered into will simply encourage other private train operators to try for the same kind of bailout? Is she aware that when I was Secretary of State we faced exactly the same pressure with the downturn in projected passenger numbers on the east coast main line, which led the then private operator, National Express, to ask us for a bailout, which we refused to give? It was as a result of that refusal that the east coast nationalisation took place: it was a huge success, and should not have been ended. Had the East Coast national company continued operating that line, the return to the taxpayer would have been significantly higher than we now face. Can the noble Baroness answer two specific questions? First, can she tell me precisely how much the taxpayer will lose in premium payments that are currently contracted under the new public/private partnership which she announced this afternoon? Secondly, will she undertake to publish all the communications between Stagecoach, Virgin and the Department for Transport which have taken place prior to the development of the strategy that she announced this afternoon?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I do of course recognise the noble Lord’s vast experience in this area but I am afraid that I do not recognise the description of the announcement today as a bailout. As the noble Lord will know, as part of the bidding Stagecoach made a series of financial commitments. It has met them in full to date and the Department for Transport expects it to continue to honour them. We will hold VTEC to its obligations and in the meantime will ensure that passengers are protected. The noble Lord mentioned the Directly Operated Railways solution. Since 2015, VTEC has contributed on average 20% more per rail period to the taxpayer than when the line was operated by Directly Operated Railways, and has achieved consistently high passenger satisfaction. It will have a rollout of new rolling stock in 2018. The choice today is not between OLR and privatisation. As announced, we are implementing the first regional public/private partnership on the route to deliver the best of both the private and the public sectors.
Baroness Sugg
On the separation of track and train, we acknowledge the benefits of putting together the operation of both those things. That is exactly what today’s announcement is all about. On the east coast partnership, as I said, the new partnership will come in from 2020, at which point the current franchise will be terminated. That was originally expected to happen in 2023. As I also said, we will hold VTEC to the obligations it made.
Brexit: Tourism
Debate between Lord Adonis and Baroness Sugg(7 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Sugg
The CAA already operates the vast majority of EU regulations in the UK and will continue to do so after exit.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister guarantee to the House that there will be no disruption in air traffic as a result of Brexit in March 2019?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, the Government recognise the need for UK air traffic management arrangements to remain interoperable with the rest of Europe. Safe and efficient air traffic management is a priority for us. We are considering all the potential implications for the UK and working with NATS to ensure that there is no disruption.