Children and Families Bill

Debate between Lord Addington and Baroness Howarth of Breckland

Monday 28th October 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the president of Livability, which is an organisation that cares for people with complex needs. I am very concerned about this issue because we have two colleges for young people aged 16-plus where their social and educational needs are met together. Sometimes it is quite difficult to differentiate between the two, as we found during Ofsted inspections. If young people have extremely serious difficulties that need perpetual health provision and you are trying to help those young people to learn skills—the sort of skills whereby they can sit and pick up a cup instead of screaming all day, which is how they are when they arrive—it can sometimes be difficult to differentiate between education, social care and health provision. I am simply asking that nothing in the Bill should make that even more difficult. Usually we have difficulty getting payment for the social element of these colleges, but recently we have found ourselves being given the social element without the educational element of the colleges. Some really difficult issues are emerging and I should like to stop them before they develop. I should be delighted if the noble Lord, Lord Nash, would one day visit Nash College.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, can my noble friend give us some idea about how the Government will remove those things that are not for educational purposes in the case of a young person with complex needs or a problem that prevents them accessing the process of education? That seems to be what the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, started with. Getting some clarification now about how that process will take place will be of help. If we have a system in place that gives some degree of confidence, I think that we can probably move on from this. If not, it will be a real problem.