Northern Ireland

Debate between Baroness Hoey and Laurence Robertson

Wednesday 23rd October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I thank the Democratic Unionist party for today’s two debates, both of which are very important. I pay great tribute to the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson), who has been a friend of mine for many years, for the way in which he introduced the debate. I think that the whole House will have found it extremely moving and very sad when he read out the names, ages and family connections of those murdered 20 years ago today—it really reminds us of what a terrible time in Northern Ireland we have seen. I would like to add my sympathies and condolences to all those who survived that attack and lived with the pain of it—it is unimaginable what they went through then and what they are still going through.

Just last year, I visited Enniskillen with the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) for the 25-year anniversary commemoration of another terrible atrocity. I was in Dundalk the day the bomb went off at Omagh and have since visited Omagh three times. I have also met the families in relation to the events at Kingsmill and Ballymurphy, and the Finucane murder. Terrible though those atrocities were, it is worth remembering that they all took place some time ago and since then enormous progress has been made in Northern Ireland—it is very important to remember that. We have seen Her Majesty the Queen pay an outstanding, historic visit to not only the Republic of Ireland, but to Northern Ireland, when she shook hands with Martin McGuinness and many other people. We have also seen power sharing and several important events in Northern Ireland which have been referred to already: for example, the G8 meeting was held there and Londonderry is the city of culture. There are many tourism opportunities in Northern Ireland, such as Giant’s causeway and the Titanic centre—there are very many reasons to go to Northern Ireland. We have seen so many changes, even just over the years I have been going there.

It is also right to say that challenges remain, however. There is unfinished business in Northern Ireland and sadly it is still, in some ways, a divided society. For example, there are more peace walls there now than there were 10 years ago, which cannot be a good thing. There are still dissidents attempting to murder members of the security forces and, over the summer and during the flag protests at the end of last year, we saw so-called loyalists throwing bricks at police officers. That simply cannot be right.

Much has been done, but this debate is about dealing with the past. How do we deal with the past? Can we ever do it successfully? There has been a call for an inquiry to be held into the Omagh atrocity, and there are powerful arguments for doing so, but there are also people who do not want such an inquiry because it would bring back the pain and rake over the past. It would risk prolonging the pain.

Perhaps the only way to deal with the past is to build a better future. Since 2010, the Select Committee, which I have the honour of chairing, has been concentrating on the future. For example, it has been inquiring into and making recommendations on economic matters such as corporation tax and air passenger duty—which we shall discuss in a short while—in an attempt to cement the peace that has been achieved by building a better economy, and by giving people greater opportunities and allowing them to feel that the peace process has been worth while for them. This is about building a Province that is very different for present and future generations from what it was in the past.

The Select Committee also considers security matters and issues relating to the past. For example, we are meeting Dr Richard Haass next Tuesday to discuss his work. We will also be meeting the Chief Constable and Deputy Chief Constable to discuss the security situation. Shortly after that, we will meet the Secretary of State to discuss all those issues and more.

One issue that the Committee cannot look into in any detail, because it is devolved, is that of education and schooling. I believe, however, that we need to make more progress on integrated education. We need to bring children together at the age of four, rather than separating them and allowing them to live separate lives. We need to show them that there is no difference between a Catholic and a Protestant, and that what differentiates us is the way we behave rather than the labels that are placed on us.

[Kate Hoey]

I thank the Chair of my Select Committee for giving way. It is important to remember when we talk about integrated education that many of Northern Ireland’s grammar schools are highly integrated. The idea that the only way of getting Catholics and Protestants to be educated together is through the introduction of integrated schools does not reflect what is actually happening.

[Mr Robertson]

I accept that the hon. Lady knows an awful lot about this subject, and I accept her point about grammar schools. She will also be aware, however, of the turmoil surrounding the ability of children to qualify to go to those schools. I suggest that there is still a need to move the general principle of integrated education forward in the wider sense.

Air Transport (Northern Ireland)

Debate between Baroness Hoey and Laurence Robertson

Thursday 27th June 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Amess. I thank the Liaison Committee for nominating this important debate, and the Minister of State, Department for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), for attending. I know that he had a busy night last night, not necessarily helped by some who are in the Chamber today. I welcome him.

This debate comes on the back of the first report of 2012-13 by the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, which we published last November. I am grateful to all Committee members for the work that they carried out on this detailed inquiry, and to our officials, who are a bit thin on the ground today, although I am sure—at least, I hope—that quality will make up for the lack of quantity.

I am grateful to the many witnesses whom we interviewed during the course of our inquiry into the air transport strategy for Northern Ireland. We talked to representatives of the airports, the CBI, the airline companies, travel companies, the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland, unions, the UK Border Agency, Ministers, the Federation of Small Businesses and others.

Since the Committee was re-formed after the last general election, we have concentrated on trying our best to move towards a rebalancing of the Northern Ireland economy. We know that Northern Ireland has become somewhat over-dependent on the public sector, and we are well aware of the reasons why. There is a large deficit in the amount of Government spending in Northern Ireland relative to the amount of tax raised there. The same is true in Scotland and Wales, of course, but it is more pronounced in Northern Ireland. Wages are also lower in Northern Ireland, and there is great concern about people who perhaps do not feel that they have had the full benefits of the peace process. We as a Committee have considered security issues from time to time, of course, and we will do so again, but we are doing our best to encourage and work with the Government and make proposals about how we might rebalance the economy in Northern Ireland. It is obviously worth doing for its own sake, so that people in the Province can enjoy greater prosperity, but we also see it as a way to cement the relative peace achieved over the past 15 years or so.

Our first inquiry after the last general election was on the level of corporation tax. We recommended that the issue be devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly so that it could set a rate that would be more competitive with the current tax rate in the Republic of Ireland. Corporation tax in the UK is 23%, but only 12.5% in the Republic. Although the Committee was certainly not unanimous on that proposal, we felt that it would help the economy in Northern Ireland move towards where we want it to be. We are debating aviation policy, not corporation tax, but I will talk about tax a little later.

I must stress the importance of air travel to Northern Ireland. It is an island off an island—a beautiful place, but nevertheless slightly remote. The only way that people there can travel reasonably quickly and efficiently either to the mainland or to the continent is by air. The sea crossing is lovely, but it is quite slow. [Interruption.] I do not know whether the Minister is thinking of extending High Speed 2 to Northern Ireland, but I am sure that it would be welcome if he did. However, as at the moment there are no plans to do so, we must stress how important air travel is to people in Northern Ireland for social, family and business reasons.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

Some Committee members suggested that it might be helpful for Ministers, particularly Ministers for Transport, to make the journey to Belfast from London or Southampton via the only real way other than flying, and to tell us all how long it takes, how much it costs and how it could possibly help improve business connectivity for that to be the only way by which a person can travel. It might be helpful for the Minister to make that trip so that he can experience it for himself. I had to make it once. It takes a very long time.

[Mr Robertson]

I thank the hon. Lady for her helpful intervention. I am sure that the Minister travels to Northern Ireland regularly, but it sounds like an invitation for him to do so in a different way.

When the Minister gets there, he will see that the rail links in Northern Ireland are not what we might want either, particularly between City of Derry airport and Belfast. I will come to that issue in a minute. It is a long and sometimes difficult journey. Northern Ireland Members sometimes have to leave Parliament early in the day—not in the morning, of course, but not too late in the afternoon—if they want to get back that evening, which may explain why they are sometimes unable to take part in debates such as this.

The background is that we have three airports in Northern Ireland: Belfast International, sometimes known as Aldergrove; Belfast City, nowadays named George Best Belfast City airport after the great footballer; and, of course, City of Derry airport. Belfast International airport has about 4 million passengers a year, Belfast City airport 2.4 million and City of Derry 400,000. When we compare that with Dublin, which has 90 million passengers a year, we see a big difference between the two, but Belfast International airport is busy and fulfils a completely different role from Belfast City airport. Both are important. City of Derry airport could probably be used more, especially this year, when Londonderry is the city of culture.

In terms of connectivity, it is extremely important that we retain capacity in the south-east of England, because many people fly from Belfast to London and then on to other cities in the world. There is some concern about the speed with which we are moving in that direction. The Committee expressed frustration about how long it is taking for the Government to decide whether we are to have, for example, a further runway at Heathrow, Boris island or something else. It is of some concern to the Committee that the Government seem to have ruled out a third runway at Heathrow before commissioning the Davies report.