Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jonathan Reynolds and Andrea Leadsom

Thursday 14th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister agree that scrapping the Department of Energy and Climate Change could only be taken as a signal that the new Government attach less significance to these important issues?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I absolutely do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The assumption that we have to have a Department for something in order to meet objectives on it is not one I agree with at all.

Energy BILL [ Lords ] (Sixth sitting)

Debate between Jonathan Reynolds and Andrea Leadsom

Thursday 4th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Andrea Leadsom]

I think we will leave it there. We are straying well out of order in terms of our discussion of CCS. All I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that he just put a lot of words into mouths that were not said yesterday. I made it clear from the Front Bench that the Government are absolutely committed, in all our policies, to being the consumer champion and to doing everything we can to keep energy bills down. It is therefore unconscionable to try to tie this in as if somehow spending more billpayers’ money on CCS would save billpayers money in the short term.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

[Andrea Leadsom]

No, I think we have had that discussion.

As part of our commitment to the future of CCS, we will continue to engage widely, including with Lord Oxburgh’s CCS advisory group, which met for the first time yesterday. I have also met the all-party parliamentary group on CCS, whose meeting I attended and spoke at last month, and the joint Government-industry CCS development forum, which I co-chair and which met at the end of last year. We are engaging widely with the CCS industry on what more can be done, supporting individual pilot schemes and measures to try to bring costs down, and ensuring that what we are building to maintain our energy security will be CCS-ready.

We need to take this opportunity to get the next steps right. We will then set out our thinking for the way forward for CCS, using the expert advice from industry, Lord Oxburgh’s group and the APPG. I hope that I have reassured hon. Members that the new clauses are unnecessary as the Government are already considering how they can support the further development of CCS.

Fuel Poverty

Debate between Jonathan Reynolds and Andrea Leadsom

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Andrea Leadsom)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) on securing such an important debate, and on the conference that he is holding in his constituency this week focusing on what can be done to address the matter. Several hon. Members from across the House have asked me what they can do to help their constituents, and it is fantastic that so many are interested in seeing what they can do on the ground to help. I am thinking about providing some kind of support for Members who want to get involved locally.

Tackling fuel poverty is of utmost importance to the Government and energy security is the No. 1 priority. We have been clear that keeping the lights and heating on while meeting our decarbonisation targets at the lowest possible cost to consumers is a priority in this Parliament. All our policy work since we came into office last May has been resolutely focused on what more we can do to keep costs down for consumers and how technology can enable people to manage their own costs better. The human dimension matters enormously. Better insulation, better heating systems and better heating controls possibly sound a bit dry, but they can make a huge difference to people’s lives. Ultimately, this is about people living in warmer homes, paying lower bills and having more control over their own lives and comfort.

Several hon. Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton), raised the importance of focusing all our schemes on tackling fuel poverty. I can assure him and other hon. Members that we are reviewing all our policies to ensure that they prioritise the fuel-poor in every possible way. We have already made a difference. Since April 2010, Government policies have supported the insulation of 3.8 million lofts and 2.1 million cavities. In fact, the number of households in fuel poverty in England has fallen every year since 2010, but it remains a massive problem. Over 2.3 million households remain in fuel poverty in England alone, and our fuel poverty strategy must and does set stretching goals to continue to address the challenge.

My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) mentioned the particular problem for those with prepayment meters, and I agree that the challenges are huge. She will be aware that the Competition and Markets Authority is looking at how energy suppliers are behaving towards those with prepayment meters. Smart meters can make a big difference to the cost of a prepayment meter, and I urge all consumers to consider switching. They can seek help from their citizens advice bureau. In previous debate in the Chamber, I was able to highlight some of the cost savings that can be achieved even for those on prepayment meters with the support of the CAB.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

The Conservative manifesto contained a promise to insulate 1 million homes in this Parliament but, as the Minister just said, 5 million homes were tackled in the previous Parliament, which was lower than in the Parliament before that. Can the Minister see why hon. Members of all parties present feel that the target does not represent a particularly ambitious Government objective?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I can assure all hon. Members that focusing on tackling fuel poverty is our priority.

From April 2017, a reformed domestic supplier obligation focused on energy efficiency measures will upgrade well over 200,000 homes a year and tackle the root cause of fuel poverty. Our extension of the warm home discount to 2020-21 at current levels of £320 million a year will help households at the greatest risk of fuel poverty with their energy bills. We will focus our efforts through both policies increasingly on households in fuel poverty and will be consulting within weeks on how we can do that.

The hon. Members for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Philip Boswell), for South Down (Ms Ritchie) and for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and other Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Members have asked what the UK Government are doing, but they are all aware that fuel poverty is a devolved matter. I am sure that they will be raising their views with their own Parliaments as well as in this place.

It is important to address the point about a single national network charge, particularly for Scotland. We had a debate in this room only recently and I pointed out that Ofgem’s recent report shows that there would be winners and losers from a national network charge. Some 1.8 million households would face higher bills and 700,000 would see reductions.

Energy BILL [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Jonathan Reynolds and Andrea Leadsom

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Andrea Leadsom)]

I am excited to hear the question of the hon. Member for Southampton, Test. I had not anticipated that it would be that, simply on the grounds that, as I, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and many Members in Committee and on Second Reading have made absolutely clear, our manifesto commitment was to end subsidies for onshore wind early. I therefore say philosophically to the hon. Gentleman that, had we meant new subsidies we would have said “new subsidy schemes”, which is the interpretation I think he wants to put on our manifesto commitment.

Let me be clear: the Government were elected with a clear manifesto commitment to end new subsidies for onshore wind and to ensure that local people have the final say on where onshore wind is built. I hope that hon. Members will accept that it is for the Government to agree what their manifesto commitments are. We have gone to great lengths to assure all hon. Members that what we meant was to close the subsidy early; we are not referring to new subsidy schemes. Had we meant schemes, we would have said schemes.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am curious about the relationship between the two parts of the Conservative pledge that the hon. Lady has just described—ending subsidy early but also making sure that local people have the final say on projects. Of course, the wording of the amendment means that those two positions are contradictory, because any local project that receives planning consent before 18 June under the proposed grace period could not go ahead. In other words, people have approved certain projects, but they will not go ahead because of the narrowness of the grace period in the amendment. Are those two positions not contradictory?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman. I think this is the first sitting of the Committee that he has been able to attend and it is good to see him here. He will appreciate that grace periods have to be set and a line has to be drawn somewhere. We have tried to accommodate the need for investor certainty and to be fair both to the businesses building onshore wind and to the consumers who are paying for them. We will get on to that in due course.

The first part of our manifesto commitment is now well on its way: clause 79, together with supporting secondary legislation, will ensure that the Secretary of State is no longer the primary decision maker for any onshore wind applications in England and Wales. New planning guidance for England, issued by my right hon. Friend the Minister for Communities and Local Government, complements this change by ensuring that local people have the final say on new onshore wind planning applications.

It is imperative that we deliver the second part of our manifesto commitment—to end new subsidies for onshore wind—to protect consumer bills and manage spending under the levy control framework. These amendments will ensure that we do exactly that by reinstating the provisions that were removed in the other place. We are committed to delivering our manifesto commitment while protecting investor confidence. It is my view that these provisions, including our grace period proposals, strike a fair balance between the public interest—including protecting consumer bills and ensuring the right mix of energy—and the interests of onshore wind developers and the wider industry.

At the end of April 2015, there were already 490 operational onshore wind farms in the UK, with an installed capacity of more than 8 GW—enough to power the equivalent of more than 4.5 million homes when the wind is blowing. That significant achievement was made possible only by providing consumer-funded subsidies. The Government estimate that in 2015-16, £850 million of support will go towards funding onshore wind across the UK, of which about £520 million, or approximately 60%, will fund Scottish onshore wind farms.

Recent levy control framework forecasts indicate that spending on low-carbon generation in 2020 will be £9.1 billion in 2012 prices. The Government previously set a limit of £7.6 billion, so the current forecast is already £1.5 billion above that, and additional costs would need to be met through increases to consumer energy bills. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change said on 18 January,

“New, clean technologies will be sustainable at the scale we need only if they are cheap enough.”—[Official Report, 18 January 2016; Vol. 604, c. 1152.]

When costs come down, as they have for onshore wind and solar, consumer-funded support should, too.

Let me reassure all Committee members that we already have enough onshore wind in the pipeline to meet the projected 11 to 13 GW needed to meet our ambition of generating 30% of electricity from renewables by 2020. That 11 to 13 GW is the deployment range clearly set out in the electricity market reform delivery plan. It is our best estimate of what we need to meet our 2020 targets, compared with what we can afford under our low-carbon spending cap.

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[Andrea Leadsom]

I guess that the hon. Gentleman makes the reasonable point that one could be traded for another, but the object of our renewables policy is not merely to avoid getting fined by the EU. I am quite sure that he does not mean to imply that that is the case. The idea is to decarbonise the UK economy. Yes, we could decide to take one route only and therefore not worry about other sectors such as transport and heat, but I am quite sure that the hon. Gentleman is not seriously suggesting that. Even if he were, it is absolutely still the case for the renewables sector that if we continue to offer generous billpayer subsidies, costs to consumers will continue to rise.

The policy was well thought through and had deployment ranges that forecast the achievement that we sought against our legally binding targets. We believe that we are in a position to meet the target with onshore wind. Simply saying, “We should carry on with it because we can do more than we set out to do,” is not a way to run anything, so I cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman that it would make sense to continue with subsidies at the expense of billpayers. This is not free money. We frequently discuss in the Chamber the problem of people being in fuel poverty and those are the people who will have to keep paying for subsidies if we choose to deploy beyond the level that we have already set for ourselves.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

The Minister’s representation of the points is incorrect. The argument is not that we are doing well and should therefore do more; it is that there is an overall renewables target for the UK that comprises certain percentages of electricity, heat and transport and we are nowhere near the heat or transport targets. If we are doing better on electricity, doing more is essential in order to hit our legally binding target. It is not about voluntarily doing more; it is about recognising that there will have to be compensation in other sectors if we are behind on heat and transport, which is a fact under our EU target.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I remind the hon. Gentleman that, in making progress towards our 2020 renewables target of 15%, we have surpassed our interim target for 2013 and 2014 with an average 6.3% of final energy consumption coming from renewable sources over those two years against a target of 5.4%. The contribution of renewables to energy generation is increasing across heat, electricity and transport. Heat from renewable sources increased by 4.6% during 2014. As hon. Members have pointed out, a record 19.1% of electricity generation came from renewables in 2014. Renewable biofuels for transport also rose by 14% during 2014.

I can again say to the Committee that we have targets for each of our energy sectors, and it is simply not realistic to say that just because onshore wind benefits from a generous subsidy and other projects could come forward, we should change our deployment target aspirations, putting the ensuing costs on to consumers’ bills at a time when we are already comfortably meeting our targets.

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[Jonathan Reynolds]

Absolutely. There is an obsession in the Conservative party with onshore wind, and often with other types of renewables, too. Arguments are applied to onshore wind that are often illogical. I simply ask hon. Members to spend some time going to see how the system is run and how all these issues apply to different assets on the grid. If they did that, some of their fears might be allayed.

[Andrea Leadsom]

The hon. Gentleman is being extraordinarily patronising. I have been to see National Grid operations. Does he have the app through which the National Grid provides real-time data? During Second Reading, 1% of our electricity was supplied by wind. Does he not accept that there are times when the wind is simply not blowing? Furthermore, does he agree that, although it is true that, in its balancing, National Grid considers the forecast for outage times, for planned outages and for wind, those forecasts are often wrong? Does he accept that it is therefore not possible to be absolutely certain how much electricity wind will contribute at any one time? He must surely accept that.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I accept that sometimes the wind does not blow—that is a reasonable point. On Second Reading, the figure was 5%, not 1%, as I said to the hon. Member for Daventry, if we take the 24-hour period in which the Bill had its Second Reading. I simply say that all generating assets have intermittency problems and require back-up. If we look at many other countries across the world, we are not the only country with an onshore wind contribution to our electricity system. Every other country in the world is investing in this in large numbers. The Minister sometimes has to respond to her own Back Benchers when they are being unfair when talking about onshore wind. Some issues are not being treated reasonably by the Government and by Conservative Back Benchers.

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[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank all members of the Committee for what has been an entertaining, informative and feisty discussion. Hon. Members of all parties share the desire to see fairness, so I take on board the comments of the hon. Member for Southampton, Test about grace periods. We have looked at them carefully. He will have heard my hon. Friends the Members for North Dorset and for Daventry saying that we could have come in on 6 May and said, “Right, you’ve got 12 hours,” but we were absolutely determined to have a measured response, and 18 June was roughly five or six weeks. We consulted widely. Although it was not a formal consultation, I can provide Members with a link—I do not have it to hand—to some of the feedback in the consultation with industry, which was carefully done to ensure that we got the balance right.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry, who has done so much work. I like the 101 dalmatians. I would have been one of them, but I think I was probably Cruella de Vil. I was certainly one of the signatories to his letter, and as his neighbour in Northamptonshire, I was very much aware of the grave concern of communities who felt that they were not being listened to. It was a great pleasure for me, as a new Minister in the Department, to be able to implement our manifesto pledge. Both my hon. Friend and I can assure Members that this is exactly what we meant by it. All colleagues on the Government Benches understand that closing the RO early was a clear manifesto commitment—no ifs, no buts.

I also congratulate my hon. Friend on his excellent work on amplitude modulation. He came and talked to me about it with a number of experts. We are determined to address and find a solution to the problem. He reminds me frequently that I need to come back to him with an answer, but the Department is taking independent advice on the matter. We hope to make some progress on that.

The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde raised a number of points that I welcomed. He talked about fairness to investors and sunk costs. Equally, he must recognise that we, as the Government, must manage the potential upside risk of deploying up to a further 7 GW and more of onshore wind, which we know is in the planning system. As I said earlier, our deployment range in our electricity market reform estimation was between 11 and 13 GW of wind, and we believe that we will still be able to be within that range.

Developers build risk into their decision making. Even before the changes were introduced, there was never a guarantee that the projects will build out. There are all sorts of risks involving planning permission— access to grid and issues with military radar. There are all sorts of reasons why projects do not come to fruition. Equally, the Government have been clear that our absolute No. 1 priority is energy security, and then decarbonising at the lowest possible cost to consumers. That means that we need to get the balance right between the costs on bills and our decarbonisation targets, to which we remain absolutely committed.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Of course there are risks in any field that must be built in, but our point is that the greater those risks—and the Government are making those risks greater—and the higher the cost of capital, the less investment will come to the UK. It is as straightforward as that.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am sure, then, that the hon. Gentleman will be delighted about our commitment to further deployment of offshore wind and to the new nuclear programme, both of which are a low-carbon future for the UK. Targets for decarbonisation and new gas, and a big decarbonisation away from coal and into gas, are the bridge to a low-carbon future. I am sure that he will welcome the certainty that we have given investors with that, and the opportunity for UK plc to get more jobs, more growth and more business in the supply chain as a result of our changes in policy.

I will come specifically to the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill, whom I thank for his excellent portrayal of the intention behind them. I hope to give him some reassurance on some of those points. My hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset is absolutely right to point out that the survey of the ballot box, which is the best survey, has entirely supported our policy on wind. He raised the question of appeals and judicial reviews. The appeals process is still in place for onshore wind. However, any appeal in England on a decision taken after 18 June will need to take into account the clear statement made by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on 18 June, which sets out the new considerations to be applied to proposals so that local people have the final say on wind farm applications, fulfilling the commitment made in the Conservative election manifesto. Importantly, it also makes it clear that planning permission should be granted only if the development site has the support of the local community and that it can be demonstrated that any planning impacts identified by affected local communities have been fully addressed. My hon. Friend is right to raise that point and I hope he is reassured.