Business Banking Fraud

Debate between John Glen and Bob Stewart

Tuesday 9th October 2018 Westminster Hall

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. This has been the fourth such debate since I was appointed on 9 January. In each of those debates we have had a number of passionate contributions from Members across the Chamber. Today has been the same. We have had 10 speeches, each of which has contained compelling evidence of a situation where banks have failed small businesses. We must be honest and true to the reality of the experiences of the many people who have come to the House today to challenge me, as the Government’s representative in this area, over what can be done to achieve proper redress.

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) for his campaigning on the matter and to my hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Mr Wragg), who set out powerfully the case that justice needs to be blind, that it needs to be done and that it needs to be seen to be done.

My deliberations will reach a conclusion imminently; I have not been putting the matter off. As has been discussed, a series of pieces of work are being undertaken, two of which will report in the next few weeks, and I will then make a judgment about the best way forward. Financial sector fraud has had a severe impact on SMEs—we heard today about several individual cases in which lives have been destroyed and families ruined. This is not a subject that I treat lightly; I have been very focused on it over the past nine months.

[Bob Stewart]

The Minister is a decent and honourable man. Will he please, please concentrate very hard on getting redress for the people who have lost so much money and so much of their lifestyle?

[John Glen]

I am very grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend for his contributions, which I shall address in a moment. I will also set out some of the changes that have taken place, but let me say from the outset that the cases that have been raised today all demonstrate that, whatever mechanisms we have implemented—from the tripartite regulation of banks and the financial system to the redress schemes of recent years—the banks need to deal with the very real legacy of this issue. Simon Walker’s review for UK Finance must listen to what has been said today about that legacy, which will not go away unless the banks face up to and take responsibility for what happened in the past.

Tackling fraud is a Government priority. I want to reflect on a new theme raised today: access to justice and the mechanisms by which it is delivered. The decision to investigate a crime rests solely with law enforcement; I cannot make it myself. Like any Member of Parliament, I can refer a crime to the relevant chief constable, but they will take account of available resources and the likely eventual outcome. It is the chief officer of the local force who is ultimately responsible for such operational decisions, and it is the responsibility of police and crime commissioners to set the budget for local forces, which the chief officer must take into account. Forces can apply for special grant funding to help meet the cost of unexpected events, but I know from conversations with my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton that there is sometimes a gap between the costs covered and the actual costs accrued. These are real matters that need to be addressed.

RBS Global Restructuring Group and SMEs

Debate between John Glen and Bob Stewart

Thursday 18th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

It is a privilege to stand at the Dispatch Box in my new role as Economic Secretary to the Treasury. I think we all feel the privilege of being Members of this House, but listening to today’s debate I also feel a great responsibility—to respond fully to the many serious examples that have been given of how the banking sector, and this group in particular, has failed so many of our constituents. I want to make it clear that in doing this job and in addressing the issues that have been raised today, I will stop at nothing in making improvements.

I begin by thanking the hon. Member for Norwich South (Clive Lewis) and the right hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) for initiating the debate, and the Backbench Business Committee for granting it. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) for his work in the all-party parliamentary group on fair business banking.

What we all care about—it has been made very clear in today’s debate—is that businesses form the lifeblood of our economy and they need a reliable mechanism to deal with disputes with banks. I am vividly aware of that, because I grew up not in a bank but in a small business. I know the risks, the anxieties, the sleepless nights, the pressures on family life and the lack of assurance over salary, so I understand that the experiences of small businesses and their relationships with banks really matter. The Government have always maintained a commitment to support and engage with businesses both small and large, and that commitment will continue unfettered.

The Government recognise that access to finance, which is the crux of the debate, is necessary for businesses to grow organically. We have a strong record of supporting businesses large and small, for instance, through measures in the Budget. The competitive tax regime—corporation tax was cut from 28% to 19%, the lowest rate in the G20—is a significant part of that, but what is really important is that businesses have access to money at a reasonable cost, with reasonable assurances on the terms of securing those funds.

A fantastic range of evidence has been presented to us today. We heard about Mr Smith’s engineering business in Bridgend and Mr Topping’s business in Hazel Grove. We heard vivid personal testimony from my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Jack). My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton gave the striking example of a monthly interest rate payment that rose, almost inexplicably, from £6,000 to £17,000 a month, leading to catastrophic losses. The hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Ged Killen) gave examples that went back eight years. There were further examples from the hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) and my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr), the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), who spoke about Mr Mitchell, the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick), and the hon. Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore), who mentioned Mr Richards. In those cases, tortuous processes were necessary to secure redress or a meaningful dialogue leading to an outcome. My hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Mims Davies) has told me about the Sayers family, who have also suffered. We heard further powerful testimony from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who used uncharacteristically strong language—legitimately so.

I too have been contacted by constituents and I have been saddened to hear the stories of many former RBS customers. The Financial Conduct Authority is reviewing the situation; it has said that it is considering the matters arising from the report it commissioned and considering whether there is any basis for further action within its powers. It would not be appropriate for me to comment further at this precise time, but I will say that although, on day seven of my job, I have not yet met the head of the FCA, this will be the first topic that I will be raising with him.

[Bob Stewart]

Will the Minister give way?

[John Glen]

I do not want to give way too many times, but I will give way to my hon. Friend.

[Bob Stewart]

First, I congratulate the Prime Minister on having the extremely good sense to appoint such a wonderful new Minister—a great friend, and someone who is really going to sort this problem out. May I ask on behalf of everyone present for the Government to be onside to ensure that the people who have lost so much are recompensed properly? We are not talking just about the future; we are taking about dealing with the past.

[John Glen]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind words. Of course we need to reach a stage where we have some answers. We need to know what went wrong, and we need to secure an outcome that is acceptable to our constituents.

It is important to recognise the fundamental need for financial providers to act in accordance with the rules of the FCA and the spirit of its principles. When they do not act in accordance with those principles, we need to have confidence in the mechanisms that exist to resolve disputes.

First World War Servicemen: Memorial Plaques

Debate between John Glen and Bob Stewart

Friday 20th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her intervention. She has made the case for the importance of local museums all over the country, and the enormous impact that they can have as communities seek to do the right thing by those who came before them and remember appropriately the sacrifices that were made.

It is very difficult to categorise the appeal of the plaques to their owners 100 years on from the war. Indeed, the Passchendaele centenary has shown us how varied are the connections that people feel to the fallen of the first world war, not only through direct family relationships but through associations based in their local communities, or connections through a school, regimental club or society. While it is not appropriate for the Government to consider collecting plaques that are no longer in the hands of the families of those who lost their lives during the war, a number of other options are open to those who possess a plaque or wish to find out more about how to commemorate an individual.

As my hon. Friends mentioned, local, regimental or corps museums associated with the place where the person commemorated lived, or was born, may have an interest in the plaques, or, indeed, in any other items relating to the first world war and its aftermath. They may also have further information about that person and his or her experience of the war. Local museums may be seen to have a stronger claim to the acquisition of such items, and are often well placed to exhibit them in their local context. That, I think, brings more meaning to the community that the individual came from.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

Families now remember their fallen by dedicating a corner of their living room to the young man, or young woman, who is lost. They have the helmet, the hat, the belt and the medal. The medal usually has the young person’s name on it, written around the ring. The families generally have the letter of condolence as well. Families whom I have visited, because the people whom they have lost were under my command when they were killed, have had one of these pennies in the room. That brings family history to life, because, from the first world war to the present, it shows the family connection. It is wonderful to see that.

[John Glen]

I thank my hon, and gallant Friend for what he has said. Whenever I think of him, I think of his service and the sacrifices made by him and by those alongside him. Once again, he has made a very important point.

There are also two invaluable online resources that help to commemorate those who fell. They provide more information about the person commemorated, and give those in possession of a plaque the option to make their information publicly available. The Imperial War Museum’s Lives of the First World War project is a permanent digital memorial which records the stories of individuals from across Britain and the Commonwealth who served in uniform and worked on the home front. The website currently has more than 7.5 million individual life stories and more than 120,000 registered members. The site offers the opportunity to add details of medals and service to an individual’s record, as well as photographs of items, thereby creating a permanent digital memorial of their first world war story.

A notable example is Isaac Rosenberg, the artist and poet. His online life story on the site includes pictures of Isaac and his gravestone, as well as an image of the next-of-kin memorial plaque received by his family. He served as a private in the 1st Battalion, King’s Own Royal Lancaster Regiment, where his experiences inspired some of his finest work. He was killed during the German spring offensive near Arras on 1 April 1918, but is remembered to this day.

The Royal British Legion also has its Every One Remembered database, which aims to ensure that by next year every man and woman from across the Commonwealth who fell during the first world war is remembered individually by those living today. This shows us that, while the way that people commemorate may have changed thanks to technology, the desire to remember the fallen is undiminished.

In the aftermath of the war, in addition to the memorial plaques, the fallen were recorded on many memorials up and down the country, and indeed across the world. As part of the Government’s centenary programme, there are many ways that communities can find out more about these memorials. I invite all hon. Members to encourage their constituents to explore the funding and training available and to get involved in recording and preserving them.

The war memorial portal project has seen the Imperial War Museum, Heritage England and other partners develop a new portal called ukwarmemorials.org, which hosts information on all UK war memorials and signposts routes for advice and funding. The portal has the most up-to-date advice on conserving and repairing memorials, and will continue to grow over the coming year. The site also contains information about other work that Historic England, the Imperial War Museum, the War Memorials Trust and Civic Voice are undertaking as part of the centenary programme to record and conserve memorials. To date, Historic England has added 1,860 memorials to the heritage list for England and expects to have listed 2,500 by the end of the centenary. Supporting this, Civic Voice has run over 180 workshops to train communities to survey and record the status of local memorials. I suggest that hon. Members recommend the site to any constituents with an interest in local memorials.

The War Memorials Trust, which provides a programme of grants to help to repair and conserve memorials, has to date made over 360 repair grants across the country, totalling some £1.4 million. It is also worth recognising the work of the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Victoria Cross commemorative paving stones project, which my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale alluded to. This project aims to commemorate each of the 627 men who won the Victoria Cross during the first world war by placing a commemorative stone in the town or village of their birth or, in the case of those born overseas, at the National Memorial Arboretum. The stones will be a visible reminder of the heroic contribution made by local people, as my hon. Friend referred to so eloquently.

In a debate on memorials to the fallen of the first world war, it is also appropriate to commend the work of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Its Menin Gate memorial and Tyne Cot cemetery recently hosted some of the Government-led events to commemorate the centenary of Passchendaele, the third battle of Ypres. However, it should be remembered that there are nearly 300,000 war graves in the UK from the first world war and other conflicts at 13,000 locations—details of local sites can be found on the CWGC website.

As we look ahead to the significant centenaries of 2018, the Government will of course be doing all we can to draw attention to different aspects of commemoration, and to the ways in which we remember our war dead. As part of that, we will of course do our utmost to ensure that the public are informed of the options open to them if they are in possession of memorial plaques, or indeed of any other personal items, and of how they can use them and resources such as Lives of the First World War to explore their own family and local history.

The memorial plaques and the many other memorials to the fallen of the first world war are a constant reminder of the huge sacrifice made by a whole generation 100 years ago, and I hope that through our commemoration programme, and by working with our partners on innovative ways of commemoration, we can ensure that future generations never forget those who fell.

Question put and agreed to.