Housing Benefit (Abolition of Social Sector Size Criteria)
Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Steve Webb(9 years, 11 months ago)
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The Minister for Pensions (Steve Webb)
Unlike the shadow Secretary of State I have listened to every speech in this debate in the hope that three questions would be answered—this is a Labour motion, and Labour Members have three questions to answer. First, how they would pay for this motion, which we recognise would cost in the order of £0.5 billion a year? The Minister for Disabled People completely demolished the hon. Lady’s argument about where the money would come from. The Leader of the Opposition said that Labour would not make any unfunded promises, but we have one before us today. The bulk of the money to pay for this motion will allegedly come from “ensuring that the building trade pays tax”, from which Labour claims we will get £380 million. It does not seem to be aware, however, that we have done that already. In the autumn statement 2013, measures to take effect in April 2014 will raise £400 million a year, so the bulk of that money has already gone.
The second point that was mentioned is reversing the stamp duty reserve tax charge, which is money from pension funds and savers. It is true that we can get money by taking it from pension funds—indeed, Labour has quite a record of taxing pension funds—but I am not convinced that that is the place to find money for welfare. The third measure Labour proposed is ending the employee shareholder scheme which, given that it wants to implement the policy in 2015-16, is rather puzzling as the policy costs nothing in 2015-16. In other words, the whole £0.5 billion is either raided from pension funds or does not exist at all.
The second question that we hoped would be answered is why it is fair to apply this principle to the private rented sector and not to social tenants. In other words, during all its time under the local housing allowance scheme, Labour was perfectly content for private sector tenants to pay for extra bedrooms, but not social tenants. When the shadow Secretary of State was briefly in the Chamber and we intervened to ask that question, she gave two reasons. The first was that the local housing allowance was not retrospective. On that basis, do Labour Members think it is okay to say that people in new social tenancies should pay for a spare bedroom? They are not saying that at all, so clearly they are inconsistent.
The hon. Lady’s second argument was absolutely bizarre. She said that people in social housing tend to have secure tenancies while those in the private rented sector tend not to. That presumably means that private rented sector tenants are more vulnerable than social tenants, yet Labour is willing to ask private tenants to pay for a spare bedroom, and not social tenants. Utterly incoherent.
The third thing I waited for in the hon. Lady’s speech—just like her leader who forgot the deficit, she forgot to say how Labour would pay for this policy—was a word that never passed her lips: overcrowding. She did not mention the plight of overcrowded people once, and we heard case studies of people affected by these measures during the debate—[Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. People seem to be talking about all sorts of things around the Chamber. The Minister ought to be heard.
Steve Webb
Case studies were mentioned, including one from the shadow Secretary of State who then forgot to tell the House that discretionary housing payments were covering the shortfall. Let me share an example of a previously overcrowded family. Suzanna lived in a four-bedroom home in south Yorkshire when this measure was introduced, and decided to downsize. She joined the HomeSwapper scheme to find a more appropriate property and said:
“I was impressed with the quantity of matches that HomeSwapper provided…the lady I swapped with…had needed to move for a long time but her landlord had been unable to move her. She desperately needed the space for her overcrowded family.”
That is the sort of thing this policy is helping to achieve, but the voice of overcrowded tenants is not being heard in this debate.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not strictly a point of order. He wished to correct the record and he has done so. He has also taken up more time in this short debate.
Pension Schemes Bill
Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Steve Webb(9 years, 12 months ago)
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The Minister for Pensions (Steve Webb)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government new clause 2—Power to impose requirements about factors used to determine each benefit.
Government new clause 3—Power to impose requirements about dealing with a deficit or surplus.
Government new clause 4—Requirement to wind up scheme in specified circumstances.
Government new clause 5—Policies about winding up.
Government new clause 6—Working out which assets are available for the provision of which benefits.
Government amendments 2, 3, 5 to 23, 25, 31, 32, 38, 43, 47, 51 to 55.
Steve Webb
It is good to see a packed House for this vital pensions Bill. The amendments are in two groups that correspond broadly with the Bill’s two main themes—the new definitions of pension schemes and pension scheme benefits, and budget pensions flexibilities.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government new clause 8—Power to require employer to arrange advice for purposes of section (Independent advice in respect of conversions and transfers: Great Britain).
Government new clause 9—Independent advice: consequential amendments—Great Britain.
Government new clause 10—Independent advice in respect of conversions and transfers: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 11—Power to require employer to arrange advice for purposes of section (Independent advice in respect of conversions and transfers: Northern Ireland).
Government new clause 12—Independent advice: consequential amendments—Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 13—Independent advice: income tax exemption.
Government new clause 14—Sums or assets that may be designated as available for drawdown: Great Britain.
Government new clause 15—Provision about conversion of certain benefits for drawdown: Great Britain.
Government new clause 16—Provision about calculation of lump sums: Great Britain.
Government new clause 17—Restrictions on conversion of benefits during winding up etc: Great Britain.
Government new clause 18—Restriction on payment of lump sums during PPF assessment period: Great Britain.
Government new clause 19—Sums or assets that may be designated as available for drawdown: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 20—Provision about conversion of certain benefits for drawdown: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 21—Provision about calculation of lump sums: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 22—Restrictions on conversion of benefits during winding up etc: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 23—Restriction on payment of lump sums during PPF assessment period: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 24—Rights to transfer benefits.
Government new clause 25—Restriction on transfers out of public service defined benefits schemes: Great Britain.
Government new clause 26—Reduction of cash equivalents: funded public service defined benefits schemes: Great Britain.
Government new clause 27—Public service defined benefits schemes: consequential amendments: Great Britain.
Government new clause 28—Restriction on transfers out of public service defined benefits schemes: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 29—Reduction of cash equivalents: funded public service defined benefits schemes: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 30—Public service defined benefits schemes: consequential amendments: Northern Ireland.
Government new clause 31—Meaning of “flexible benefit”.
Government new clause 32—Meaning of “cash balance benefit”.
Government new clause 33—Interpretation of Part 4.
Government amendments 4, 24, 26 to 30, 33, 34 to 37, 39 to 42, 44 to 46, 48.
Government new schedule 1—Rights to transfer benefits.
Government amendments 49, 50, 56 to 72.
Amendment 73, page 46, line 25, in schedule 4, at end insert—
‘(1A) Individuals delivering the pensions guidance must ask those receiving the guidance about other potential sources of retirement income in addition to defined contribution pension schemes; this must include an assessment of assets such as housing wealth, savings and investments.”
Government amendment 1.