Adult Social Care

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 8th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I was not going to speak, but I have been drawn by some of the speeches that I have heard to add some comments, particularly on autistic people and people with learning disabilities and their care. One of the worst aspects of the chronic underfunding of adult social care is that it has led to a reliance on inappropriate in-patient care for autistic people and people with learning disabilities, 2,000 of whom are in that situation. The Government seem chronically unable to get that number down; there have been all kinds of targets to reduce it, but it has not happened.

That care is often expensive and far from home. The hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) told us about people in a care home far from their homes, but when the care is in in-patient units, it is often unsuitable. We know from scandals at units such as the Edenfield Centre, most recently, and Winterbourne View—there have been 10 years of scandals in those in-patient units—that they are frequently found to use restraint and seclusion as a punishment.

There have been inquiries and reports into the level of social care funding, such as that chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), who made an excellent speech. The Health and Social Care Committee, of which I was a member, also looked into the issue and made recommendations. The squeeze on local authority funding means that local authorities feel that they have to put the bill on to the NHS—it becomes easier for a local authority to let the NHS pick up the bill for an autistic person or a person with learning disabilities.

Those placements can cost hundreds of thousands of pounds a year—up to £1 million. In one case that we have spent a lot of time talking about in the House, the NHS was funding a placement that cost £1 million a year. Clearly that makes no sense, because the money could go into housing or care for that person, but there does not seem to be any way to passport the money from the NHS, which is shelling it out every year, to the local authorities that would need it if they were to house and provide care for those people.

However, we had a solution years ago. When people were moved from long-term mental health institutions into the community, a dowry went with them from the NHS to the local authority. When I was the vice-chair of social services as a councillor, if we picked up somebody who had been in a long-term mental health institution to move them to the local authority, they came with a dowry that might be as much as £1 million. If a local authority were to buy a property or pay for care for a number of years, that system would work.

I urge the Minister to look at the recommendations made by the Health and Social Care Committee when we looked at this, but also to take account of what the hon. Member for North Shropshire said about how we cannot leave this in an unsatisfactory and precarious situation. It is good that some solution was found in the case she mentioned, but too often people end up in in-patient care and then will be there for the rest of their lives. There are people in these institutions who have been there 10, 20, 25 or 30 years, and it is tragic, because once someone has spent that long in an institution, it is very difficult to find a way back to the community. I wanted to mention that because it has been raised in the debate.

I want to mention one other thing. The right hon. Member for Ashford (Damian Green) and the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) talked about support and recognition for carers, and they are right to do so. We should all think about how we support unpaid carers. However, I want to say that I think the thing that is missing is that we do not have a proper national carers strategy. The last national carers strategy we had in this country was under the last Labour Government, and it came out in 2008. That would solve the problem, which my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East talked about, of there being no respite care breaks for carers. That national carers strategy had a commitment of £255 million specifically to support carers, including £150 million for respite care breaks. We now find that there is no money we can identify or point to that is specifically for respite care breaks. Given the squeeze on local authority funding, it just does not happen.

What this Government have had is a carers action plan, which is a weak document. The last one, which covered 2018 to 2020, had no funding commitments and was very short of ambition. I know that carers organisations very much campaign for us to go back to having a national carers strategy, which in the case of the Labour Government had the commitment of the Prime Minister and each of the Secretaries of State responsible for services used by carers. I think the key thing, as we have heard in this debate—I really stress this point—is that we have to go back to having some money that is kept separately for respite care breaks for carers, otherwise they will be pushed and pushed, and they will not get the support they need.

I just wanted to speak on those two points, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I join everyone else in saying what a pleasure it is to see you back in your place.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Thank you. I call the shadow Minister.

Health and Social Care Update

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Thursday 22nd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I was about to draw matters to a close, it being 17 minutes past 2, but I appreciate that those on the Opposition Front Bench might point out that the people for the next debate are not yet present. Therefore, I will extend the statement for a very short while, but I should note that it is not very good practice not to be here.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

As one exasperated constituent put it, having not been able to get a GP appointment,

“It seems there are too many patients and not enough doctors and this has gotten worse over the last few years.”

My constituents can grasp the workforce issue, but it seems that the Secretary of State cannot. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) that it is deeply worrying that the new Secretary of State did not mention the pay of care staff, when that is the crucial issue if we are to tackle the 160,000 vacancies in the care sector. Will the Secretary of State tell me why the Government are choosing not to tackle the shortage of doctors, nurses and care staff, which is leading to such long wait times for my constituents?

Ukraine Update

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I will protect the Secretary of State from the temptation to stray outwith his own territory.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I, too, give my thanks to the Defence Secretary for his work and that of his team and for his compassion. I am afraid that I am going to raise another visa issue with him. My constituent is trying to get his young niece to the UK after she fled her home in Ukraine. After endless bureaucratic checks and delays, they have been told today that she has to travel nearly 300 km across Poland to get the decision on her visa. The Defence Secretary will understand that refugees such as my constituent’s niece have already made long and challenging journeys from Ukraine to Poland and now have to make more journeys just to get the decision. My constituent calls the Government’s approach to people fleeing the war in Ukraine “inhumane”. Given the meeting on the visa process that the Secretary of State mentioned, can he press on the Home Secretary the need to offer a compassionate and human response to refugees fleeing the war in Ukraine?

[Mr Wallace]

I do not want to run the risk of making you angry, Madam Deputy Speaker, so I will say that I would be delighted to pass that case to my Parliamentary Private Secretary and press the Home Office to resolve it. If I indulge myself here, Madam Deputy Speaker will rule me out of order, because this is a question about the Ukraine situation through Defence.

Points of Order

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. Once again, it is wrong that questions have been asked and they have not been answered within a reasonable time. Of course, the Chair is not responsible for the content of Ministers’ answers but, again, I suggest two courses of action to him. One is to draw the matter to the attention of the Procedure Committee—I have a bit of a feeling it is going to be busy in this respect because I think this is the sixth point of order of this kind that I have taken in the past few days and I am sure my colleagues have taken more. He also, of course, has the option of consulting the Table Office about ways in which he can bring Ministers to the Chamber to answer the questions. His point is made and I am sure it will have been noted.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I want to correct the record. The Minister for Care and Mental Health, who has now left her place after the statement, persistently said that there was no White Paper from the Labour Government in 2010. That is patently not true. Our March 2010 White Paper “Building the National Care Service” came out just a few months before the general election. We can send her a copy—I will find one—but it is not accurate to say, when we are talking about these important things, that the Labour Government did not have a plan for social care because we did and it was an excellent plan.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Lady for her point of order, which, as she knows, is a point of debate. She says that the Minister was wrong in her answer and the Minister thinks she was right in the answer. I am so happy to tell the House that it is not for me to decide who was right or who was wrong, although in this case it does seem that the facts speak for themselves.

Fire Safety Bill

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 29th April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab) [V]]

I want to begin by welcoming this long-overdue Bill. We all know what the consequences can be—[Inaudible.] Nobody here will ever forget the tragedy of Grenfell Tower, but only last autumn a block of student accommodation called The Cube, just over the border from my constituency in Bolton, caught fire. There were no casualties that time, but—[Inaudible.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I have to interrupt the hon. Lady because the sound quality is not very good. Let us try again for a few seconds, and if it does not improve, we will leave the hon. Lady and come back to her later.

[Barbara Keeley]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Although this Bill is overdue, it does not guarantee action immediately. I understand that the current crisis makes it difficult—[Inaudible.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I am very sorry, but I have to interrupt the hon. Lady again. Those in the Chamber, and presumably those listening in other ways, cannot make out what she is saying, so we will interrupt her speech for the moment and hopefully come back to her shortly.

I am glad to see that in the Chamber we have, without any sound difficulties, Meg Hillier.

Points of Order

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 5th November 2019 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He will be well aware that the making of a written statement is perfectly in order, so I can make no criticism of it from the Chair. I cannot give him answers to his questions, but he has taken the opportunity to alert the House and the Treasury Bench to his concerns. Of course, there are other ways in which he would normally be able to take forward his inquiries, but I do appreciate that this is the last day on which he can do so. He has done his best.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Ministers have been in the media today talking about the issue of the 2,250 autistic people and people with learning disabilities detained in mental health in-patient units. In the press and on broadcast media, Ministers have talked about demanding reviews of all those people who were detained, but in today’s written statement on the training of staff working with autistic people and people with learning disabilities there is no mention of what Ministers talked about in the media. We have therefore not had the chance to question Ministers on it, nor have we had a chance to talk about the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights.

Last week, the Committee described the horrific reality of hospital in-patient units, with its report stating that

“we are inflicting terrible suffering on those detained in mental health hospitals and causing anguish to their distraught families.”

I have raised the case of Bethany, an 18-year-old autistic woman who was locked in a cell in a secure unit in Wales many miles from her home. This morning, her father said the following in response to the Care Minister, talking about those reviews of the 2,250 people like Bethany—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Is the hon. Lady almost finished? This is a very long point of order.

--- Later in debate ---

[Barbara Keeley]

I have almost finished.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Given the sensitive nature of the hon. Lady’s point of order, I will allow her to finish it, but let us not create a precedent.

[Barbara Keeley]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Care Minister has been around the media but has not been here to talk about the reviews, and Bethany’s father said the following in response:

“We have had review after review after review. We need action, not reviews.”

In the light of the extensive coverage in the press and broadcast media, have you had an indication from Health Ministers that they plan to come to the House to make an oral statement and answer questions?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The straight answer to the hon. Lady’s eventual question is that I have had no such notice, but I get the impression that what the hon. Lady really wanted to do is to raise this matter in the Chamber to bring it to the attention of Ministers. We are about to have a general debate during which any Member can raise a wide range of points, so the solution for the hon. Lady is immediately available to her—as soon as we are finished with the Bill that we are about to discuss.

Nuclear Safeguards Bill

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Ping Pong: House of Commons
Tuesday 8th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. In the urgent question on the Learning Disabilities Mortality Review earlier on, which had been published at 8 am on Friday 4 May with no press releases or advance copies in the middle of the local election results, the Minister of State for Care said:

“It is an independent document and the University of Bristol decided when it was going to be published. It was published on Friday without permission from or any kind of communication with the Department of Health and Social Care.”

However, the Secretary of State had told the House in December 2016:

“As the programme develops, all learnings will be transferred to the national avoidable mortality programme. I have today asked the LeDeR programme to provide annual reports to the Department of Health on its findings”—[Official Report, 13 December 2016; Vol. 618, c. 622.]

What the Minister of State said today cuts directly across what the Secretary of State told the House, which was that he intended annual reports to be made to the Department of Health. Since our urgent question, the programme itself has clarified this on social media. It said that following claims made by the Care Minister in Parliament,

“we would like to clarify that @NHSEngland chose when to publish the #Leder report and directed all communications.”

Given that clarification from the programme itself, has the Minister of State or the Secretary of State asked to correct the record?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Lady wishes to put her point on the record and, by raising a point of order, she has done so. I am quite certain that the Treasury Bench will have taken note of what she has said. She, like all Members of this House, will know that it is not a matter for the Chair what an individual Minister says at the Dispatch Box. Therefore, I cannot give her any ruling on the matter, but she has sought to put her point on the record, and she has succeeded in doing so.

Business of the House (Today)

Ordered,

That, at this day’s sitting, proceedings on the Motion in the name of Jeremy Corbyn relating to Criminal Legal Aid Remuneration may continue, though opposed, for 90 minutes after the commencement of proceedings on the motion for this Order, and shall then lapse if not previously disposed of, and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) will not apply.—(Rebecca Harris.)

Point of Order

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Thursday 1st February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I also wish you a happy birthday?

In an oral statement on social care on 7 December 2017, the then Care Minister, the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price), replied to a question I asked about the Government abandoning the carers strategy that had been due to be published in summer 2017—a strategy that has been dragging on for so long, in fact, that the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) was associated with that piece of work when he was in his former role. The then Minister said, about the thousands of carers who had responded to a consultation and then been left waiting:

“We have listened to them, and we will consider what they have said in bringing forward the Green Paper. In the meantime, it is very important to pull together exactly what support there is at present and then respond to that, and we will publish our action plan in January.”—[Official Report, 7 December 2017; Vol. 632, c. 1238-1239.]

It is now February. Not only have we no longer any prospect of a carers strategy from the Government, but they have not met their own target to publish an action plan. This is a shabby way to treat carers. Madam Deputy Speaker, do you have any indication that the new Care Minister plans to come to this House to update us on what, if anything, the Government propose to do to support carers?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the hon. Lady, first for her good wishes and secondly for drawing the attention of the House to a matter about which she has concern. As she knows, I have no power or authority to require the Minister to come to the House, but there are other methods that the hon. Lady can use to attempt to require the Minister to come to the Dispatch Box and answer her questions. Mr Speaker has made it very clear in the past—of course, I agree with him—that when a Minister has given an undertaking that something will be done, it ought to be done. I am quite sure that the hon. Lady’s point will have been noted by those on the Treasury Bench.

Social Care

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 25th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Again we see the Government refusing to vote on a motion—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I cannot hear what the hon. Lady at the Dispatch Box is saying, and she is speaking to me.

[Barbara Keeley]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Again, we see the Government abstaining—refusing to vote on a motion tabled by the Opposition. This time, we have been debating vital issues: the funding crisis in social care and whether the Government will confirm their intention not to proceed with the policy for funding social care that they put forward, frightening people, during the general election.

My hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) has just described this Government as the “weakest and most divided” for many years. May I ask you, Madam Deputy Speaker, whether it is in order for this weak and divided Government to pick and choose when they will vote on matters that are raised in this House?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Lady has taken this opportunity to make the points that she wishes to make, and the House has heard them. She knows, and the House knows, that the Government’s decision on what they answer, what Ministers say at the Dispatch Box and how individual Members of this House choose to vote—or not—are not matters for the Chair. We will have no more points of order on that; it is not a point of order.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Monday 21st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley]

Is my hon. Friend as concerned as I am that two more cuts to the NHS will hit and cause extra pressures? There will be £650 million of pressure from the pension contributions that have to be paid for NHS staff and a £1.1 billion cut in the maintenance and repairs bill for the NHS. All of that will have to be found.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. A great many people wish to speak in this debate. Every time there is an intervention—and these have been too long—another minute goes by and somebody else drops off the end of the list. Just so long as hon. Members know that when they make interventions, the time available for the debate does not increase but merely prevents their colleagues from speaking. I am not saying for a moment that the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) has done anything wrong. She is perfectly entitled to intervene, but I merely point out the consequences.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 2nd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have just heard a Government Member pray in aid my right hon. Friend Paul Goggins, who is dead, and try to include him on the Government’s side of the argument. It is terribly wrong to do that.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Thank you. I call Mr Barry Gardiner.

Finance Bill

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley]

I am glad that the Minister has managed to spare some time out of the 90 or so minutes that remain. I raised the issue of the care cap, to which he has not responded at all. It will cost £1 billion to bring in the nil-rate band on inheritance tax. The Minister talked about childcare, but he has not touched on that particular point. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I cannot hear the hon. Lady. The Members who have been in the Chamber for the whole debate will wish to hear her and the Minister’s answer. If other people, who have not been here for the debate, wish to have conversations, they can have them outside the Chamber.

[Barbara Keeley]

Will the Minister respond to the point I raised: is it reasonable to spend £1 billion so that people can pass on the value of their homes while others—people with dementia and other long-term conditions—can lose everything they have and all the value of their home through paying down care costs?

Infrastructure Bill [Lords]

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Keeley

Monday 8th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley]

The planning process for shale gas was changed on the first day of the recess last year—a day after we had debated it here—and there was no chance to comment. As my hon. Friend says, it is important that the public have confidence, which they cannot have at the moment. Planning authorities such as that in Salford should not have been denied the chance to comment on and take into account certain measures that were removed by the Government last year, and the time scale should not have been shortened. People need time to get their heads around this complex process, and planning authorities have fewer staff than they once had. I mentioned the payment scheme, which is totally unsatisfactory. People whose businesses lost money or who could not sell their homes will not be compensated by giving small amounts of money to the scout group down the road. This must be dealt with—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I call the Minister.