International Climate Action

Debate between Earl of Sandwich and Lord Duncan of Springbank

Thursday 26th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

The noble Lord is absolutely right: setting a 2050 net zero target is important as a point on the horizon to be reached, but it is the pathways we will take to get there that will be the challenge. He is right again when he reminds us that the Chancellor gave an estimate of how much he thought this might cost this country alone, but it is sometimes more useful to take it down to the level of the individual household. To consider what it will mean, think of a household that has one car and a central heating system using gas, and think of having to move that forward. There are different technologies that we may be able to use to increase the efficiency of the electricity going into the home, but when we begin to talk about the changeover, particularly with vehicles, we are talking about significant individual household investments, and we cannot shy away from that.

One of the greatest dangers we face today is the number of times people conflate the words “electricity” and “energy”. On some days you will hear that we are approaching close to getting 100% of our electricity from renewable sources, but if you put the word “energy” into that, you are absolutely wrong, because our transport system and the way we heat our homes are primarily hydrocarbon based. We are not one small step away, and unless the general public appreciate that, they will wonder why we are not going faster.

The challenge we need to map out is the one that the noble Lord rightly pointed out. Our plan as we approach the glide path to COP26 in Glasgow must be to set out very clearly not only the routes we are seeking to explore, because some need exploration, but the targets and milestones by which we can measure our progress. We must also set out how we can look at that as a means to encourage others to follow in our slipstream. In truth, as I said, if we achieve this ourselves, we will have done little at a global level: we must have others come alongside. Once we have seen the framework, we should probably gather together once again to explore the details of how it might work in reality and to look at the costs, because it will not be without costs, and commitments required from individual households to change their behaviour.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, I welcome not only the Statement but the fact that the Prime Minister actually got to New York and had some really good news on that front; I hope he will develop that side of his life. I was impressed that the poorest countries got a mention, especially because that is what our Department for International Development is for, but is it saying enough about this to the general public? Perhaps it needs the Prime Minister to get behind it. This is critical for some of the countries we are supporting, but nobody knows that we are supporting them. Should we be sending more delegations of Members of Parliament to see what is being done? I am not satisfied with that. There was a figure in the press this morning that the sea will rise 10 millimetres per annum by the end of the century. This is a horrifying statistic. Are we doing enough to support those particular countries? Can the Minister say any more about that?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

That is an interesting point. How much more can we do using the intellectual resources of Members of this House and the other place to engage directly with countries at the sharper end of climate change? I accept that and I will take it away and give some consideration to how we can use the resources available to us. I think we need to promote more carefully the good work that we do overseas, not just in the area of poverty, which is perhaps better known, but in addressing wider climate change questions. Only by doing that can we ensure that our people retain a strong commitment to the 0.7% of GDP for the millennium development goals. We need to make sure that that is the bedrock on which we build, not a fight that we have to have every single time we look at it because it is simply being eroded.

On the question of the sea level rise, I had a meeting not so long ago with the ambassador of the Maldives. The noble Lord will appreciate that the highest point on the Maldives is actually lower than my height, so its people will experience this very quickly; even at that level of seawater rise, the land will disappear in very short order. We need to consider very carefully how we can help a country such as the Maldives, as well as other island states, which will be very much at the sharpest end of any sea level rise. We also have to accept that it is not just the sea level that is rising but the sea temperature. We will face a lot of challenges. We often talk about global migration issues. We will see that global migration in the water first; we will see it in the seas. The seas around the United Kingdom are shallower—we have the North Sea basin—and we will begin to see our fishing industry experiencing very different kinds of fish, potentially in very short order. We need to be on top of a whole range of issues and we need to be careful to ensure that people understand the challenges we face, not just at home but in supporting the wider global community in this area.