Education Bill

Debate between Earl of Listowel and Lord Elton

Monday 12th September 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Elton]

I ask my noble friend for a little footnote to history. In checking the affirmative order provided for in Clause 74(4), I see that, whereas we have only an affirmative procedure for statutory instruments affecting these changes, the Welsh have opted for their equivalent for the negative procedure. I wondered what the history to that was. I do not want an answer now but, if there is anything of interest in it, I should like to know what it is.

[The Earl of Listowel]

I thank the Minister briefly for his clear recognition of what happens if we do not get this right: we have children whose parents have not been able to care for them properly, for whatever reason, feeling unwanted in their schools, being put in a place that they feel is like some sort of bin and then ending up in the secure estate. There is a great deal at stake here and getting it right is very complex. Some children benefit from a smaller environment.

One does not want all the worst children in one place; some of them need to be a bit healthier. The last time that I visited a pupil referral unit, there was a fire alarm and we all had to file out to stand outside. It was the third time that day that this had happened, and it was chaos. The staff were good but it was a very difficult environment to work in. I welcome the Minister’s action on this.

I am very pleased that Charlie Taylor, whom we have met and in whom we all have confidence, is taking charge in this area. I wonder whether any noble Lords might be interested in visiting a pupil referral unit with him soon to see what is going on. I certainly would be, and I will get in touch with him about that.

Education Bill

Debate between Earl of Listowel and Lord Elton

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Elton]

Very well. I would be grateful if my noble friend would turn his mind again to the question of the integration of the independent and state sectors, and co-operation between the two. I take it that there would be no philosophical objection to the private sector buying into the provision of these facilities, which he rightly says should not be given away free.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, I thank the Minister warmly for his encouraging response, and I thank noble Lords for expressing sympathy at least for the principles behind the amendments—I am very grateful for that. I need to think more about costs, particularly for developing classroom observation. A number of noble Lords pointed out the cost of having teachers away from the class and of having teachers observing other teachers. I want to make sure that that is kept in mind.

Perhaps I might also briefly apologise for something that I said earlier in Committee about the early years workforce. I made some comments that I regret. It is widely recognised that capacity in that area is fairly low and I might have dwelt more on the very positive experience that I have had of meeting people who have a strong vocation in that area of work. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Elton]

Another class of people who deserve a second chance is those who fall over their shoelaces in the first term and lose the respect of children. They are never going to get that back in that school and will never get a fair trial. They need to go to another school and start again, where you may get a very good teacher out of the experience.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, I am sorry to trouble the Committee further, but I am still a little worried by the Minister’s response. I was grateful for what she said but I can see a situation where excellent head teachers working extremely hard in very challenging areas producing outstanding results do not get the credit due to them for doing that. It is far easier to get high academic results in a school in a leafy suburb than in an inner-city school. We risk denying our future teachers an experience of learning from an inspirational head in an inner city if these plans are not carefully balanced to ensure that there is a broad base of experience in these teaching schools and they are not situated predominantly in areas where it is easier to get high educational attainment. However, we need to aim always to get the highest educational attainment for all our children.

Education Bill

Debate between Earl of Listowel and Lord Elton

Monday 4th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Elton]

May I ask a couple of questions of my noble friend? First, he referred throughout to permanent exclusion. The word “permanent” does not seem to appear in the text of the legislation. The direction was given to the Secretary of State in setting out the regulations, leaving it open to him to decide what sort of an exclusion the panel might make a judgment on. I assume there are important administrative reasons to minimise the appeals as well as practical ones. If it is an exclusion for a week or a fortnight, it will be over before the appeal is heard. For permanent exclusion, that is a different matter. Secondly, I would like to ask the question the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, was expected to ask and did not: what is to become of pupils excluded from a PRU, particularly if there is only one PRU available in an area? Thirdly, I am puzzled not to have received representations—I may be unique in this—from the head teachers’ organisations and I wondered whether they had expressed a view.

[The Earl of Listowel]

Before the Minister replies to those questions, perhaps it might be helpful to ask another question for information. How do the numbers of exclusions break down between primary schools and secondary schools? He may already have mentioned that but I would be grateful for that information.

Education Bill

Debate between Earl of Listowel and Lord Elton

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Elton]

I urge my noble friend to bear it in mind, and particularly to have it borne in the minds of those drafting the document he promises for telling parents what they can expect in the way of help, that the parents of children we are most urgently wanting to help will have a reading age not much above that of the children. The document must be drafted with an expert eye on the comprehension of the reader.

[The Earl of Listowel]

Before my noble friend replies, I thank him for the news of the statement this summer and I join the noble Lord, Lord Elton, in asking whether the draftsmen might keep a couple of points in mind. One is the importance of midwives, whom I omitted to mention. In my experience, if a midwife can make a relationship with a mother, particularly a vulnerable mother, there can be many beneficial results in terms of breastfeeding, for example. I am afraid that midwives often feel almost as if they are working in a factory; there is a very mixed experience across this country of what it is to be a midwife.

There is also concern about family support workers because of the cuts in funding to local authorities. I understand that local authorities are living up to their requirements with regard to child protection; they are focusing on the area that is most critical, but there is concern that funding for family support workers is being cut back. It would be good to have information on how that role is being impacted by the recession. Family support workers provide a crucial service for the most vulnerable families, as I am sure your Lordships will agree. I am sure that this will be a part of the statement in any case.