Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

2nd reading
Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Given his direct experience, the noble Lord knows exactly how the procedures work in Brussels. The point I was making was that the vast majority was introduced into UK law directly, without any appropriate scrutiny from Parliament beforehand. Obviously, there were lots of discussions in Brussels. He took part in some on behalf of the Council, and I took part in many in the European Parliament as well. But there was no scrutiny in this Parliament for much of that legislation.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

I do not mean to be discourteous; I really am not. But the European Union Committee of this House and the European Scrutiny Committee of the other place sat for nearly 50 years doing the scrutiny that the Minister is saying did not take place. It was very heavy: it used 72 Peers from this Chamber in its structure. There was quite a lot of scrutiny going on.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There was scrutiny but no ability for Parliament to amend any of it, of course.

Employment Rights Legislation

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 1st February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We will no doubt have this debate at Second Reading of the rule legislation on Monday. If those are the comments of the director-general of the CBI, then he is wrong. Our paternity and maternity regulations are far in excess of those guaranteed by EU minimums. We are proud of that and will continue with them.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, when the rule Bill was introduced in the Commons in September, the Explanatory Notes said that there were 2,400 bits of rule legislation. When the notes appeared here on 19 January, that number had risen to 3,200. I have just accessed the dashboard, and that refers to 3,745 bits; that is an increase of more than 40 bits of rule legislation a day in the last 13 days. Can the Minister tell us how many of the 1,345 bits of rule legislation added since September are about employment rights?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As the noble Lord said, they are all available on the dashboard for him to refer to.

REUL Bill: Trade Unions and Workers’ Rights

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Monday 23rd January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We engage with the trade unions regularly. There have been a number of meetings in recent weeks, particularly about strike action, but the retained EU law Bill is not about workers’ rights; it is about retained EU legislation and the consequences that will flow from that. However, there will be a full opportunity to debate that in the House in the near future.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, the Explanatory Notes for the Bill when it was introduced in September last year said confidently in the overview at paragraph 16 that there were 2,400 pieces of legislation involved. The Explanatory Notes for the introduction to this House say that there are 3,200. First, I wonder whether any of the 800 bits of legislation that have turned up in the interim affect workers’ rights. Secondly, how confident is the Minister that 3,200 is the final number?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are of course continuing to do detailed work on this matter. There will be an opportunity to debate that in full in the House in the near future, and I am sure that the noble Earl will want to make his contribution on that. We will update the dashboard shortly.

Horizon Europe

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There were many different questions there. First, I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of international science collaboration. Secondly, we are not cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world. We remain keen to associate to Horizon Europe and co-operate with other scientific nations across the world. Thirdly, I do not agree with his point about the National Security and Investment Act causing problems for universities. The system is working extremely well and applications are being approved smoothly, as he will see if he looks at the recently produced annual report.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

The sorry state of affairs is, of course, the result of the impasse over the Northern Ireland protocol. Can the noble Lord the Minister assure us on two fronts—first, that the plan B concepts will not be brought forward until absolutely the last moment when it is not possible practically to join this iteration of the seven-year Horizon programme, which would come not before the end of this year; and, secondly, that if a plan B comes forward, it would be structured in such a way that the future co-operative and collaborative matters that the noble Lord, Lord Reid, talked about can be taken advantage of because it would be possible to collaborate with a future Horizon programme?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Indeed, the Northern Ireland protocol is the excuse that the EU gives for refusing to live up to its commitment. These are separate agreements and issues. We would prefer them to be completely separate. We want to associate with Horizon Europe because it is in both our interests. There should be international science collaboration, as I said in response to previous questions, and we remain willing to sit down and implement the agreement that was entered into, just as soon as the EU is prepared to talk about it.

European Research Council

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Northern Ireland protocol is built into the treaty. The exercising of the Northern Ireland protocol, if we chose to do so, would be in compliance with the treaty obligations. It is a section of that treaty. I merely make the point that the UK has not broken any of its obligations that it signed with the EU. It is the EU that is in default, and it is about time the Liberal Democrats recognised that.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, the Horizon programme is actually very complex. It would not be completely easy for us to begin the programme, say, 18 months late, without some element of further negotiation. Are the Government already dealing with that on a “what if” basis or will be a further delay, assuming that the protocol is finally sorted out?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said, we stand ready to commence negotiations for our association as soon as the EU is prepared to do so. In the meantime, of course, as the House would expect, we are putting in place alternative arrangements if that proves not to be possible.

Horizon Europe

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Yes, we will try to do that.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, referred to our letter. Our letter came after an evidence session, when it was clear that it was mutually harmful to science communities of the UK and Europe not to have the UK participating in the programme. That is not surprising, because the joint declaration, which is the foundation of this agreement, says:

“The Parties recognise the mutual benefit”.


Can the Minister assure us that both parties understand that there is a mutual harm in the programme not starting with UK participation?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree totally with the noble Earl that it is to the benefit of both parties. It provides value for money for the UK, which is why we agreed to associate with it. We thought that we had a legally binding agreement with the EU, as part of the trade and co-operation agreement. We will continue to try to unblock that and work towards agreement. We want to associate with it precisely because we think that it is to the benefit of both parties, and we hope that will be obvious to the EU as well.

National Security and Investment Bill

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, here we are again. We return once more to parliamentary scrutiny of the National Security and Investment Bill. It is of course always a pleasure for me to be in your Lordships’ company, so to be here twice in one day on this legislation and once on a Statement repeat is obviously a treat of the highest order.

Noble Lords will have seen that the other place once again rejected the amendments put forward by the noble Lord, Lord West, by a further significant margin. Let there be no doubt that I welcome and value the considerable expertise that noble Lords have put into their amendments and proposals. In addition to their expertise, I now have the opportunity to further compliment their stamina and resolve.

However, as I said earlier today in this House, in our view the BEIS Select Committee remains the most appropriate committee for scrutinising the operation of this regime by the Secretary of State for BEIS. I have already put forward the Government’s arguments in this regard on a number of occasions, so I will not try your Lordships’ patience much further. Assurances have now been provided, both in this House and the other place, that there will be no barriers to effective scrutiny by the BEIS Select Committee. In particular, its handling of material, be it confidential or classified, will be appropriately dealt with.

I know your Lordships have some scepticism on this claim. I am not sure what else I can say to reassure noble Lords, other than that my department will work closely with the BEIS Select Committee and its chairman to ensure that effective scrutiny can and will take place. Of course, there will be times when further scrutiny by other committees is appropriate—for example, the Science and Technology Committee or even the Intelligence and Security Committee. As this House has heard in previous debates, there is also nothing stopping these committees carrying out the important work that falls within their respective remits.

I now look to this House to respect the clear wishes of the other place and to acknowledge our rapidly dwindling time to pass this essential Bill. I therefore hope that this House will now support the Government’s Motion and allow the Bill to pass. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

The noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, has withdrawn. Accordingly, I call the noble Lord, Lord Fox.

Construction Industry: Retention Payments

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Thursday 14th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

A lot of discussions are taking place between the Government, the Construction Leadership Council and different parts of the industry; we are actively exploring possible solutions and are committed to improving payment practices and working with the construction industry to take this forward. Of course, any solution has to work for the industry and its clients, and it has to be sustainable, addressing all of the issues: the need for surety and fair, prompt payment. As I said earlier, several policy options are being considered, including a possible retention deposit scheme and, of course, phasing out retentions completely. During the current pandemic, the Government, in conjunction with the Construction Leadership Council, have provided guidance to the industry on responsible and fair contractual behaviour, which, of course, includes retentions.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have now been asked, and we move to the fourth Oral Question.

Gas Boilers and Heaters: Replacement Programme

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 12th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Treasury’s net zero review, to which the noble Lord referred, is considering how the transition to net zero will be funded. Alongside this we are publishing a call for evidence by April to begin a strategic dialogue between government, consumers and industry on affordability and fairness. We have also expanded government support schemes, which I referred to earlier, to those on low incomes, who are likely to benefit from them or to be at risk of fuel poverty. We will respond to our consultation on fuel poverty in due course.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed and accordingly we moved to the third Oral Question.

Fossil Fuels: Business

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend is right to highlight the problem of recycling batteries. We are investigating the environmental opportunities of a transition to zero-emission vehicles, and are keen to encourage a circular economy in these vehicles, particularly for batteries. We are supporting the innovation infra- structure and regulatory environment required to create a proper battery recycling scheme.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, all the supplementary questions have been asked and answered. We therefore move to the fourth Oral Question.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Committee stage & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 2nd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

Does the Minister wish to add anything?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Not if the noble Baroness has withdrawn her opposition.

Clause 30 agreed.

Competition and Markets Authority

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

At the risk of repeating myself, of course we keep these matters under constant review. We will see the outcome of the Digital Markets Taskforce that the CMA is currently involved in and, if necessary, we will take further action.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, is not available, so we will go straight to the noble Lord, Lord Hain.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, surely the noble Lord, Lord Tyrie, standing down is a devastating indictment of the unwillingness of Tory Ministers to permit him to do his job properly, as well as the Government’s subservience to vast vested interests and the immense power of digital platforms at the expense of customers and competition. The Covid pandemic means that there will be lots of business casualties, allowing national and especially local monopolies to trample over customers. I am sorry, but the Minister is not coming clean with us; the noble Lord, Lord Tyrie, is both honourable and highly capable: will he tell us straight, please, why Ministers have been so shamefully subservient to tycoons, plutocrats and dodgy dealers that he, an eminent fellow Tory, has been forced to resign from a job he wanted to do properly?

[Lord Callanan]

Well, characteristically the noble Lord has a great grasp of hyperbole, but I do not think that he is fairly characterising the situation here. It is a complicated area of detailed policy. We have an excellent competition regime in this country, the CMA is a highly regarded regulator and, as I said, we will consider giving it additional powers to protect consumer and business interests if that is required.

[The Deputy Speaker]

My Lords, all the supplementary questions have been asked. Therefore, that concludes the hybrid proceedings on these Oral Questions.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard continued) & Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 15th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Baroness makes my point very well. The reason why I did not was because there had been no further negotiations since that legislation was passed. There was nothing to update the House on. It illustrates the point that it is bad legislation, and bad to set out these precise timetables in legislation. There needs to be flexibility on behalf of the Government and of course on behalf of Parliament. Of course, the changes to domestic law required by the future relationship treaty will require legislation for their implementation. This will mean, of course, that Parliament will have its say, just as it is having its say on this Bill and on the amendments. It should be noted that the key powers provided by these clauses would be given to the House of Commons. Last Wednesday, MPs rejected a similar power in an amendment in Committee by 344 votes to 255. Noble Lords are welcome to ask the other place to think again about what powers it should have, but I am confident of what its response will be.

[The Earl of Kinnoull]

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. I should have said a big “thank you” for the time he spent with me on this topic in his cosy office. I am afraid that there will be a bit more time spent as well. I was very keen that he cover two things. First, he covered his view of Article 218, but he did not go at all into the interinstitutional agreement, which really expands, quite dramatically—I read it out—on what the European Parliament receives automatically. It is not having to ask for it—it receives it automatically, which is quite a big difference. Nor did he comment at all on what David Davis had said to us about parity of information, which is a different point in fact than that made by the amendment. I was really asking the Minister to comment about whether the parity of information pledge made by the then Secretary of State in the summer of 2016 was still current.

[Lord Callanan]

I did not cover that specifically. The noble Lord quoted the document—I have it in front of me—and it refers to the Commission providing early and clear information to Parliament. It is not specific on what information exactly should be provided and at what stages; its very nature is that of an interinstitutional agreement attempting to cover a whole range of different scenarios. My point is valid: the Commission controls what information is provided and when. With regard to his other point, the pledge still holds, essentially. The Government are committed—the Prime Minister said it—to provide as much information as is possible to Parliament to enable it to provide its proper scrutiny, without conflicting with the necessity to conduct a lot of these negotiations in confidence as we do not wish to prejudice our negotiating position.

I know the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, will be very keen to hear my point about the devolved Administrations. We are firmly of the view that it is the responsibility of the UK Government to negotiate on behalf of the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, we recognise the specific interests of the devolved Administrations in our negotiations with the EU and their responsibilities for implementing that legislation in devolved areas. We have been clear that the devolved Administrations should be closely involved in preparations for the negotiations, and will continue to engage with them extensively. Indeed, only last Thursday I attended the 21st meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee on EU Negotiations, where we had a constructive—as they say, full and frank—exchange of views with the Scottish and Welsh Governments and, at the time, the Northern Ireland Civil Service. Now that we have an Assembly up and running in Northern Ireland, I am sure it will want to contribute to these negotiations as well.

I chair one of the joint ministerial committees; I have been up to Scotland many times to take part in these sessions and my noble friend Lady Williams has also attended them. A number of UK Ministers go and there is regular dialogue with all the devolved Administrations, both on the negotiations and, up until now, on ongoing EU business. That will continue and we are looking at how that should develop and be taken forward when we are no longer an EU member state and we move on to the implementation phase. We are committed to ensuring that we have the best deal for all parts of the United Kingdom. The devolved Administrations are, of course, free to engage with their own respective devolved legislatures as part of this process, but the delay that would be caused by creating unnecessary powers of veto could, in our view, frustrate our ability to finish negotiations by the end of the year.

We believe that the Government have a mandate to begin the negotiations and there is no need to introduce additional hurdles or delays before those negotiations can begin. I hope the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, will therefore feel able not to press their amendments.

Brexit: Movement of Goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord speaks with great authority on these points. We accept that we have compromised with the European Union to get a deal. We think that these arrangements will be acceptable. The consent mechanism is built into them, by which, after four years, elected representatives in Northern Ireland will be able to decide whether they continue. During the implementation period, we want to work with the EU and the Government of Ireland to make sure that this new procedure works as satisfactorily and smoothly as possible.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the European Union Select Committee held a public evidence session on Monday and the Secretary of State gave evidence. He was asked during that session whether Northern Ireland businesses sending goods to Great Britain would have to complete export declarations. In answer he said:

“Just to be clear, the exit summary declarations will be required in terms of Northern Ireland to Great Britain”.


My question to the Minister has a yes or no answer: does he stand by the words of the Secretary of State?

Brexit: Withdrawal Agreement Scrutiny

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 31st October 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that a more collaborative approach—we wrote to the Secretary of State on 23 October with a reasonable and short list of information that we needed to help us prepare a timely report for this House—would help the Government promote an atmosphere that would allow a greater percentage probability of them getting the meaningful vote through this House?

[Lord Callanan]

Well, we are taking a collaborative approach on this. We have provided as much information as we are able. We cannot provide details of something that has not yet been agreed. As we discussed earlier, sections have been agreed and the “green text”, in the jargon, has been published and made available. There was extensive discussion around that. Ministers have appeared extensively at this Dispatch Box, in the other place and in front of Select Committees. The Secretary of State has appeared once in front of the committee of the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, and has committed to do so again when we have a deal. That is the same treatment that committees in the other place are receiving.

Brexit: Sectoral Impact Assessments

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. It is difficult to do an impact assessment until we know what the final terms of the deal are. The impact could vary across different sectors and parts of the economy but I can only repeat: we will be as open and transparent as possible, subject to preserving our negotiating position.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, it has certainly been a very busy week at the other end, because, of course, there has been an exchange of letters between the chairman of the Exiting the European Union Committee and the Secretary of State; they have spoken, and they have even set a meeting. All that we have managed to do is to send a letter, at our end—and I was glad to hear the Minister say a moment ago that we would be put in the same position. I stress that parity of timing, as the noble Baroness also said, is completely critical, because we have a big staff and a big committee looking at these things. It is very unfair if the timing is not right, and I ask him to confirm that he will do his personal utmost to make sure that changes are made so there is parity of timing.

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Earl for his point, which is well made. With regard to what I said earlier, sharing on the same basis also implies sharing at the same time.

Brexit: Sectoral Impact Assessments

Debate between Earl of Kinnoull and Lord Callanan

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I have been in the department since Monday. There are hundreds and hundreds of pages of these assessments. I have read some of them. I do not know whether there is a specific reference to the north-east, or indeed any other regions, in the documents. If there is, I have not seen one yet.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, David Davis has appeared before the European Union Select Committee three times since the Brexit vote, and on more than one occasion he has promised parity of information for us and the committee in the House of Commons. We have now published 20 sectoral reports, and there are more in the pipeline. Therefore, we are in a very high state of knowledge about sectoral issues. Will the Minister go further than saying that he will have a discussion with our chairman about things and actually undertake that we will receive the same information as the equivalent committee in the House of Commons?

[Lord Callanan]

As I said, we still need to have further discussions with the chairman of the Brexit Select Committee in another place. Of course, following those discussions we will reflect further on what information we will want to provide to comply with the Motion, and I have undertaken to have a similar discussion with the chairman of the committee in this place. I do not want to go any further than that at the moment.