Development Aid: Pakistan
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Baroness Smith of Basildon
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, the noble and right reverend Lord makes a very good point about ensuring that we target aid to the people who need it. DfID Pakistan continues to review its support to poor and marginalised people in Pakistan and we aim to better disaggregate our results data in future. We recently had some success in collecting more and better-quality data on people with disabilities in Pakistan, and this also picked up other minorities. We have learned from that and will build on it to focus our energy on collecting data from these other groups.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that a key part of our support for Pakistan is the CSSF’s rule of law programme, which aims to increase Pakistan’s civilian capacity to investigate, detain, prosecute and try terrorists. He will also be aware that Pakistan routinely uses the death penalty, including against those who are alleged to have committed terrorism offences as juveniles. He talks about targeting how aid is used, so can he guarantee to this House today that not a single penny of the CSSF has been used to indirectly support the death penalty in Pakistan in any way?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, as the noble Baroness is perfectly aware, we condemn the death penalty wherever and by whoever it is used anywhere in the world. We cannot support this barbaric penalty. I cannot give individual details on that programme, but I will ensure that that information gets to the noble Baroness. I should also point out that the rule of law is paramount. For example, in the Asia Bibi case we are very pleased to see Pakistan’s commitment to the rule of law following the Supreme Court of Pakistan’s decision in January this year to uphold Asia Bibi’s acquittal on blasphemy charges.
Passports
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Baroness Smith of Basildon
The Earl of Courtown
My noble friend mentioned the arrangements that occur in some countries in the European Union. As I said in my opening Answer, contracts do not need to be put out to tender where services can be obtained from a state-owned company. Some countries have a state-owned company; we do not have that here in the United Kingdom. I will not comment on any commercially sensitive details but I should add that there will be a saving of £120 million to the taxpayer over the course of this contract.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister not understand that he sounds rather complacent on this issue? I have to ask: why do other European countries have state-owned companies? It is because of their concerns around security. To most of us, it seems quite a bizarre decision that, while other countries are producing their passports at home, we have taken that away from a company which, by all accounts, has provided an excellent service to this country. There is a risk of workers in this country losing their jobs now that that company has lost a flagship contract. Given the rhetoric of Ministers that Brexit means taking back control, is the Minister able to tell the House how taking back control means handing out the passport contract to another country?
I have two further questions on the issue of security. First, the Minister dismissed security implications because the passports are blank, but I would question that and ask whether our security agencies feel the same. How are we going to ensure compliance when a company outside the country is producing the passports? Secondly, as we move forward with the digital development of passports, what plans are being considered now to ensure compliance with security arrangements in those circumstances?
The Earl of Courtown
I thank the noble Baroness for her questions, in which she made a number of points. There will be jobs created in this country under the new contract. Under the present contract, 20% of the blank passports are already manufactured overseas. As far as the security issue is concerned, under the new contract all passports will continue to be personalised with the passport holder’s personal details, such as name and photograph, in the United Kingdom. This will ensure that no personal data will leave the United Kingdom.