P&O Ferries

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Wednesday 23rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise that I was not here yesterday: my wife had a very bad fall and fractured her head, so we spent two days in the hospital, but I wanted to be here today. I hope noble Lords will bear with me.

The most important thing for everybody in this House —or any house, individuals or otherwise—is your reputation. I am today wearing the tie of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, which goes back nearly 200 years. My predecessor served at the Battle of Trafalgar and, as a matter of interest, my noble friend Lord Lamont is a direct descendant of the first chairman, who was in the Shetland Islands.

What I want to say is this—

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I do not want to be ungracious to my noble friend, but if he could reach his question, that would be helpful.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

I will issue a statement separately from this, but I wanted to ask this. People from all over the world are deeply upset and concerned about the reputation of a company that has been one of the greatest companies, and of which I have had the honour to be a part for nearly 40-odd years. I stood down in 2005—

Defence: Expenditure

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Wednesday 17th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, the defence of the realm is the very first responsibility of any Prime Minister and not a laughing matter. Over history, the frigate has been absolutely key. The old ship of the line, the battleship, gets all the glamour but the frigate is key. Taking into account what happened last week with HMS “Montrose” and HMS “Duncan”, does the Minister agree that, with our global responsibilities coming up in the very near future, we need about 25 frigates ready to do the job properly?

[Earl Howe]

I am grateful to my noble friend. I am not sure about the number he cites but I agree with the tenor of his question. We can be proud of what defence has achieved and the investments it has made in recent years, but we must also be vigilant. We must respond to growing threats, especially more persistent and aggressive state competition, and the disruptive effects of rapid advances in technology. With those things in mind, the MoD has established a set of policy approaches and capability investments designed to keep us on track to deliver the right UK defence for the coming decade.

Defence: British Steel

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Tuesday 30th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is absolutely right to point out that the UK steel industry has faced major challenges over the past three to four years, in particular from international competition and high infrastructure costs. Those challenges continue. But steel is one of this country’s foundation industries, which is why we have supported the sector in a variety of ways. As it is an energy-intensive industry, we have made provision to support any additional costs incurred by carbon-reduction policies; we have the industrial strategy challenge fund; we are reviewing business rates; and we were instrumental in securing antidumping measures through the EU. Also, wherever possible, across government we attempt to buy British when it comes to steel.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, in 2014 I commissioned a special document from the London colleges in connection with the value of defence procurement being sovereign and not overseas. The suggestion I read on Monday—that these three ships will be designated supply ships and therefore should be open to competition—is to my mind complete nonsense. In practice, they are supply ships going into action and have to be armed. Four of the countries of Europe, including France, are building very similar ships, which are designated as warships. It is absolutely ridiculous to consider otherwise. Also, it supports the view on steel, because some 100,000 tonnes of steel is involved. Further to that, it leads to jobs and, on the education side, continues the drumbeat that we need to build up the manufacturing companies. Will the Government re-examine this issue? This is another example of the Treasury being in love with cost and not value for money.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am afraid I cannot entirely agree with my noble friend. It is undoubtedly true that the Armed Forces benefit from the UK acquiring military capability from an open market. Competitive procurement ensures that we drive innovation and efficiency into our industrial base. UK suppliers’ drive to be competitive in their home market will ultimately secure their prosperity, not only in the UK context but in the global marketplace as well.

Offshore Patrol Vessels

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

As we speak, the Marine Management Organisation within Defra is making a full assessment of the scale and volume of both sea-based and non-seaboard patrol and surveillance capability required after we leave the EU. This is the key point for us to focus on. The Ministry of Defence and other agencies are tracking this work, but it is important to remember that fisheries protection is multilayered. It is not just the Royal Navy that enforces protection. The Marine Management Organisation relies on a lot of other systems to do that very thing.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, I have just flown in from New York, having attended Trafalgar Night on board the “Queen Elizabeth”. It was a most splendid occasion. We entertained the seniors of both the United States Navy and their Marine Corps. They could not have emphasised more their pride in having us as an ally, and everybody in this House can be very proud of the professionalism of all our sailors on board that ship. But when I asked the head of their navy, “Could you remind me how many people you have?”, he said, “363,000”. What was very clear was that they would like us to have greater capability. Do the Government recognise that, to keep this valuable friendship with the Americans, greater capability must be provided by the Government?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend will know that the national shipbuilding strategy recognises the need for greater volume in the destroyer and frigate force. The Type 31e will enable us to grow the size of the frigate force.

Royal Navy: Type 31e Frigate

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Thursday 6th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I greatly respect the noble Lord’s point of view, but I humbly suggest that we should not get too distracted by percentages. We need to look at the threats and make sure that we have the right capabilities to deal with them. That work is ongoing through the modernising defence programme. We continue to have one of the largest defence budgets in the world, and it is growing by £1 billion a year.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, I have just come back from the conference in Portsmouth with the First Sea Lord yesterday. I have been to many of these and I found it inspiring because, for the first time, with all the younger officers there, the climate of interest in changing the culture and delivering that is dramatically different from what it has been during the last two or three years. It really was something you could capture. The Second Sea Lord, who has the responsibility of delivering the Type 31 ships, has no illusions as to what needs to be done. He made the point, which I totally agree with, that you have to make the best use of the money you have actually got and not just pile more money on top of it. We need more money in practice and perhaps the Minister would be kind enough to ask again because, over and above what is being done—I think they will deliver that on time—the key, as has just been said, is that we need it to enlarge the whole capability of our armed response.

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend speaks with considerable authority on this matter. The modernising defence programme is about making our Armed Forces more capable, against the harder threats that we now face, and it is looking at how best we can use our growing budget to that effect.

Royal Navy: Deployment

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 2nd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble and gallant Lord is quite right. I am sure that that point will not be lost on the high command of the Royal Navy.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, it has been made clear and is public knowledge that General Mattis has written to our Secretary of State, stating that as much as he is proud of the association with this country over hundreds of years, he has to say quite seriously that at least 2% is good enough for a regional ally, but certainly not as an ongoing partner in the rest the world. The shortages are so great. Do the Government feel that a lack of an ongoing association after the NATO meeting in a week’s time is in the best interests of this country?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I hope my noble friend will appreciate that I cannot comment on a leaked letter. What I can say, I hope by way of reassurance, is that the United States has been, is and will remain this country’s closest ally. It is a vital partner in the NATO alliance. I am quite sure that the United States feels exactly the same way about the integral nature of the NATO partnership.

Defence Modernisation Programme

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 29th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the NSCR and the modernising defence programme that flows from it are intended to act a means of implementing the 2015 SDSR. It is the SDSR that we should take as the baseline for the work we are doing because we still believe that many of the headline findings of the SDSR are as valid today as they were then. We can have a sensible discussion about our defence needs but clearly, as the work proceeds, the Ministry of Defence will wish to consult closely with other government departments that have an interest in what we do.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

I draw attention to the summary of the national defence strategy of the United States of America, which was released last week. If noble Lords have not seen it, it is by General Mattis. It is an extremely interesting document, down to earth and in spoken English, and I cannot recommend it more highly. I would like to plagiarise it and pinch some of his comments. I had the pleasure of joining the Secretary of State for breakfast last Wednesday, and I came away with the view that he is a man we should support foursquare, and parliamentarians from both Houses who are interested in defence—there are many of them, from all parties—should support him in every way possible. A key relationship for the future will be between Sir Mark, our national security adviser, and the Secretary of State, but I suggest that the fourth strand is the key strand. The last word of the fourth strand talks about strategic needs for the future. A combination of brains and innovation can deal with the first three; much of it is already known. I suggest, however, that the key date we have to consider is that of the next NATO summit which takes place on 11 and 12 July in Brussels. The right outcome to that will go down marvellously with our European friends, our American allies and, most importantly, the Commonwealth. If we walk in with empty words, they will forget us completely. When we walk in—this is the key—we need at least 3% for the future. We must have a greater presence, with many more people in the armed services. That way, when we go in to speak at that summit, the result should be, “The Brits have come back”. Does my noble friend the Minister agree with my last comment?

[Earl Howe]

I am very grateful to my noble friend for his support of this programme of work and for the support that he expressed for my right honourable friend. I can tell the House, having worked with my right honourable friend for a number of weeks now, that he is 110% behind our Armed Forces and will fight very hard to ensure that we have an outcome that is credible, sustainable and affordable, and in which everybody will have confidence. My noble friend is right in that a critical date this year is that of the NATO summit. I am sure that we will arrive at a position where our allies have as much confidence as we do, and it is very important that we work towards that date in our minds.

Armed Forces: Investment

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 22nd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord’s central point is, of course, quite correct. I agree with him that uncertainty in any context can be unsettling and damaging. The Government do not wish to prolong this exercise more than necessary. The review is still ongoing and Ministers will consider the conclusions in due course. Any decisions on whether, when or to what extent the conclusions of the work are made public will be made by Ministers separately.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, last Thursday in this House there was a defence debate which I had the honour to lead. The Thursday before there was a magnificent debate in the other House, supported by all Members on all sides of the House in a major way. During those debates, it became clear from those in this House and the other place who are much more experienced than me and who conduct themselves magnificently as a duty to the country, that there is grave disquiet among all Members of both Houses. My noble friend Lord Howe, who has great experience in this area and is always totally courteous, must be aware of this huge disquiet. Would he be prepared to ask the powers that be to allow this House to have a full day’s debate on the defence of the realm? The other House debated it for five and a half hours last week. This is a hugely important subject: none of us wants to live to regret not doing our duty.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as my noble friend knows, this House returns to the subject of defence at regular intervals, but I will of course convey his request to the usual channels. I, for one, would be more than happy to take part in such a debate. I am of course aware of the disquiet to which he refers; I have been made aware of it across your Lordships’ House over many weeks. However, the exercise that we are doing is very important: it is to make sure that we have Armed Forces that are fit for the future, not the past.

National Security Capability Review

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 15th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The Government have not reached the point where they are thinking of doing anything along the lines the noble Lord suggested. I am well aware of the press reports to which he refers. I must emphasise again that they are speculation. Ministers have not had a formal set of options presented to them, and that is the point at which there will be a decision-making process. Until then, I fear that I cannot comment on any speculation.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement, particularly the last words, “deliver the right capabilities”, and the word “ensure”. We may at last have a Defence Secretary who will fight our corner. When we talk about threats, many of those who are much more knowledgeable than me through their days in defence will say that it is the unknown threats that we have to be prepared for. The known threats are much more straightforward; the unknown requires a different capability entirely.

The debate in the Commons last Thursday was one of the finest debates I have come across since I have been in Parliament. If any noble Lord has not read it, you should. This coming Thursday, we will have our own debate, as some noble Lords will be more than aware. When will the Government come to a viewpoint and state the way forward? Will it be in March or April, because time is not on our side?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right that there is no merit in delaying the announcement on this subject longer than we need to, but I am glad that he picked up the tone and tenor of the Statement. The main purpose of the review is to ensure that we have a full suite of national security capabilities, from hard power to soft power, to achieve the security goals, the economic goals—the goals that depend on our national influence around the world—set in the 2015 strategy and in the context of our exit from the European Union.

Armed Forces: Morale

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I hope that my speech last night in the debate on the Royal Marines settled many concerns. The idea that the Government are going to abolish the Royal Marines or give up our amphibious capability is, frankly, ridiculous. I hope that I was able to settle that point.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, the defence of the realm is the number one responsibility of government, yet during the Budget there was not a single word about defence. Does that help morale? Will the Minister also comment on the fact that the retention rate of some of our best people is worsening nearly every week?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, my noble friend has a deep knowledge of all these matters, in particular on the personnel front. There is no denying that recruitment and retention are currently a challenge, as they always are when the economy is growing and there is a demographic shortage of young people. That is precisely why we have to focus on the things that matter to those thinking of joining the Armed Forces and the offer that we make to them, not only in terms of pay but in modernising the lived experience of service personnel—that is where the covenant comes in—and in the Armed Forces family strategy.

Defence: Industrial Strategy

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I can reassure the noble Lord in that regard. The Government remain committed to the principles we set out in our 2012 White Paper, National Security Through Technology, including promoting open competition. We will be refreshing our defence industrial policy very much within that framework.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the comments of the noble Lord, Lord West. There is a big difference between cost, which this country has got so used to using as a measure, and value for money. What has been lacking for many years—I know the noble Lord, Lord Levene, feels very strongly about this as well—is a long-term relationship with industry. You cannot expect people to employ engineers, and get thousands of subcontractors and universities involved without long-term relationships. Does the Minister agree that that is a way forward? After all, the United States of America, Russia and China all have huge sovereign industry and it certainly seems to serves them well.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that part of the work we have to do, and are doing, is looking at how we can optimise the strategic interaction between the Ministry of Defence and industry, including how we make defence a more attractive customer for people who do not traditionally supply to the MoD, such as small and medium-sized enterprises. It is about creating simpler processes and a more competitive UK supply chain. Of course, we would like to source from companies and organisations in this country, but we have to make it as easy as possible for them to deal with us.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Sterling of Plaistow

Monday 21st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The question is whether the Joint Force 2025 concept that we set out in the SDSR is the right choice for the current strategic context. We are clear that it is. It is a concept that is about making more effective use of our Armed Forces because it both invests in new capabilities and makes better use of the people we have. Of course, with more people and more equipment we could do more, but we are satisfied that the Armed Forces will be the right size to meet our defence and security policy requirements. I say that without wishing to give the impression that we are complacent, because we are not—these things are under constant review. However, we must remember that we face these challenges not alone but alongside our allies and partners.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, the world has changed since the last review—it has been only a year, but think of what has happened and what has changed. As far as I am concerned, we are living in the most troublesome time of my lifetime, and I have lived through both the war and the confrontation with Russia. I have asked for permission to have a full defence debate in this House because this is a most serious subject. Does my noble friend agree that, because of what is happening in Europe and in the United States of America, not only has the situation changed but the demands placed on our armed services could be greater in the years to come?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend’s request will not have fallen on deaf ears as regards the usual channels. I am happy to speak to him afterwards about the possibility of a debate on these matters. We are not complacent about Russian capabilities, the political changes in the United States or Brexit. We remain, however, fully committed to NATO and our European partners, with whom we will deter threats across a wide spectrum in order to protect our people. We have a readiness action plan that we have developed with NATO. That gives NATO the tools needed to respond to short-notice, or indeed no-notice, incidents in order to protect alliance territory.