Animal Welfare (Electronic Collars) (England) Regulations 2023

Debate between Duke of Montrose and Lord Jones

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction. I acknowledge his confident sign- posting of where the regulation takes us. It is clearly a very welcome regulation; there are millions of cat and dog owners who are hugely fond of their pets and will, no doubt, greet the mention of electronic collars with quite some repugnance. The Minister can be congratulated on his regulation, which will surely be wholeheartedly greeted with no little relief by many pet owners.

The regulations are securely rooted in the Animal Welfare Act 2006—perhaps a landmark Act of its kind. We should thank the department for them. As a dog lover, and a dog owner at one time, I recollect our late dog: a black lab, named Sweep. He was a failed gun- dog and, for sure, he had neither courage nor aggression. When we were burgled, I rather think he was the welcoming group for that misdemeanour.

I have only a few brief questions. Mainly as a point of principle and for the record, will the Minister expand a little on paragraphs 4.1 and 4.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum? How did he or his department consult the Senedd? It is a trifle delphic. It is not sophistry, of course, but perhaps he might expand on those paragraphs a little.

Further, paragraph 7.13 refers to His Majesty’s Armed Forces. How will this operate? In what circumstances does the Minister envisage paragraph 7.13 operating? One might presume that an MoD dog with an electronic collar would be very obedient and might even, if it is doing its work, in some circumstances cease to worry a trespasser. One does not know, so perhaps the Minister could indicate how that might work.

Paragraph 10.4 of the Explanatory Memorandum is about consultation. Can the Minister give a brief summary—a précis—of those involved? Maybe they are well-known national organisations, and it may come easily to his memory whom he or his department consulted. Again, I congratulate him on the regulations and a helpful Explanatory Memorandum.

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for laying out these regulations and the work that has gone into drawing them up. I declare my interest as a vice-president of the National Sheep Association. Of course, worrying by dogs is a major concern for the industry. I have had sheep worried by family pets, and it is very sad for all concerned because, at the moment, the only cure for a dog that is worrying sheep is to have it put down. If a dear family pet fails in this way, often people send it away somewhere else, which does not really solve the situation.

Recently, the secretary of the NSA issued a statement that some farmers in Wales are finding that they can train a dog not to worry sheep by using electronic collars. It is not a question of monitoring the collar but of training the dog. This could prevent the putting down of healthy dogs. Has this been considered? The collars are limited to shocks of about 5,000 volts, whereas electric fences and so on can be about 35,000 volts, which animals quickly come to recognise. This is an area where the limits covered by this measure might have to be reconsidered.