European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 29th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), who made her case powerfully and cogently. I want to strengthen the hand of this Prime Minister and this Government in returning to Brussels. I believe that there is a range of changes that would render the withdrawal agreement—in particular, the backstop—acceptable to me and to hon. Members across the House.

There could be a sunset mechanism or an exit mechanism, over which we exercise control but with assurances to our friends and partners in Dublin about its exercise. I listened very carefully to the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Sir Vince Cable), who talked about whether that is possible. It is possible. Michel Barnier said very clearly on 24 January, in relation to a no-deal scenario, that the EU side

“would be obliged to carry out controls on goods arriving in the Republic of Ireland. My team have worked hard to study how controls can be made paperless or decentralised, which will be useful in all circumstances.”

He later confirmed and clarified:

“We will have to find an operational way of carrying out checks and controls without putting back in place a border”.

We must be clear that this is not a question whether it can be done; it is a political choice. Paragraph 23 of the political declaration was clarified to make clear a transition to a best-in-class free trade agreement.

In the brief time available, let me address the two key amendments. I listened very carefully to the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper), and I am worried about the constitutional precedent that she would set. Most of all, her amendment and the Bill that would follow purport to be neutral in relation to process, but in their substance they are a Pandora’s box. They would mandate a nine-month extension for negotiations, but the EU has ruled out such a long extension.

[Yvette Cooper]

To make it absolutely clear, the intention is not to mandate nine months. I think that would be very unhelpful. The point is that any motion that is tabled at the end of February should be amendable, and it should be for the House to decide at that point. If necessary, we can make that clearer as the Bill progresses to avoid any unhelpful conclusions.

[Dominic Raab]

I thank the right hon. Lady for that, but the Bill states nine months very clearly, and the EU has made it clear that it would need to know the strategic objective of any extension.

Leaving the EU: Meaningful Vote

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Monday 22nd October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

We do not comment on legal advice, but obviously we took advice continually throughout the progress of the EU withdrawal Act, and the issue of section 13—the process and the need for it—and the importance of having a clear and decisive outcome to the meaningful vote, which is the surest way to make sure it is meaningful and substantive, were discussed at length during the passage of that Act.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State seems to be arguing that we cannot discuss any amendments in advance simply because those amendments might not be ones the Government agree with, might not give them the legal support they want or might not agree with them that there is no alternative to their motion. I am afraid they should be making those arguments when we discuss the amendments, before we discuss the main motion, in the normal way. Anything other than that is procedural ducking and diving to avoid the real substance of the debate and to avoid a meaningful vote.

[Dominic Raab]

I do not think there was a question there, but as the right hon. Lady will know, the selection of amendments and what the House can discuss is a matter for the Speaker. [Interruption.]

EU Exit Negotiations

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 9th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

I do not accept that characterisation of the White Paper proposals. There would be not just technical consultation, but consultation on any legislative proposal in advance. My hon. Friend is right to say that we would be taking an up-front decision to sign up to the common rulebook on industrial goods and agrifood in order to maintain frictionless trade. There would be a parliamentary lock, but we would have to be mindful—as the White Paper sets out—of the consequences of exercising that lock.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State rightly ruled out a hard border in Northern Ireland and a customs border in the Irish sea, but is it not now time to be honest with people about what that means? He appeared to be ruling out a customs union in the backstop. Is he also ruling out a common external tariff in the Irish backstop—yes or no?

[Dominic Raab]

We have been very clear that the arrangement needs to be time-limited. We would not accept an arrangement that drew a customs border down the Irish sea. It needs to be limited so that we can bridge to the future relationship, which would give us all the advantages of free trade that we want to take advantage of, including export opportunities from Latin America to Asia, and the reduction of the cost of living here at home.

Brexit Negotiations and No Deal Contingency Planning

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 4th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

I always listen very carefully to my right hon. Friend’s advice. I do not think that, having presented our proposals, we are going to roll over for Brussels. We are going to explain them to Michel Barnier and answer the questions, practical and others, he has raised. We are confident that our proposals respect the key and core equities and core principles of the EU, but also resolve all the issues we need to see resolved around frictionless trade at the border, critically, in terms of our future relationship, avoiding any need for recourse to the Irish backstop.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

Over the summer, it was reported that the UK Border Force has had to recruit hundreds of extra staff just to deal with existing delays at the border, that recruitment of additional Brexit staff has been paused, and that the Government are off-track to have anywhere near the number of additional UK Border Force officials they would need for immigration or customs checks in the event of no deal. Can the Secretary of State confirm that that is the case, that he also has no guarantee that we will continue to have access to the criminal database that gives our border officials crucial information about terror and criminal suspects coming from the EU, and that no deal would undermine our border security as well as our economic security?

[Dominic Raab]

On recruitment and border staff, when I published the technical notices and gave a speech on 23 August, I set out all the recruitment, including in relation to the border agency. I would be very happy to send a copy of the speech, which sets that out in detail. In relation to the no deal scenario, of course this is not what we want but, through the technical notices and the planning we are putting in place, we are making sure that we are in the best position to avoid the risks of short-term disruption, to make sure we can manage them, and, ultimately, to make sure we can get through any short-term disruption so Britain can go from strength to strength.

EU Withdrawal Agreement: Legislation

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 24th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

My right hon. Friend heard what I said in my statement. The most important thing is that we are clear that there is no deal until the whole deal is done, and it will be important to establish that linkage in the withdrawal agreement directly.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

I am still unclear about the Secretary of State’s plans for the Northern Ireland backstop. If that is part of the withdrawal agreement, will it be legislated for in the legislation referred to in this White Paper—yes or no?

[Dominic Raab]

Yes.

EU: Future Relationship White Paper

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Thursday 12th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

I respect my hon. Friend’s views, and I know she takes a close interest in these matters. I seem to remember that under previous Administrations statements and hard-copy documents were received very late, but I have apologised for what happened today, and I will endeavour to ensure that it is not repeated. On her broader point, we have tough choices to make, and the White Paper seeks to reconcile the challenge of ensuring that we leave the customs union, with all the benefits of that and opportunities to be grasped, while also minimising any potential disruption to trade. I will release more details to the House about our no-deal planning in due course.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

Only 20 paragraphs of the White Paper are about immigration, and they are very narrow—they just talk about business transfers, temporary business services, tourists and students. There is no reference to what would happen if, for example, the NHS wanted to recruit long term from the EU, perhaps for nurses or care workers. Is that because the Government are ruling out any provisions to support long-term recruitment, or because they have not yet worked out how that would happen? Also, does the Secretary of State agree that it is really important that, as we discuss immigration reform, none of us reverts to the kind of divisive language we heard during the referendum campaign?

[Dominic Raab]

I thank the right hon. Lady for those points. The White Paper actually sets out the position very clearly: we are ending free movement but we want to take a sensible approach to matters such as business trips, holiday travel, research and students coming from the EU to the UK, and vice versa. Of course, we will consider the matter further when my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary brings forward that legislation. As we have said on free trade agreements that we will be forging with countries around the world, the issue of visas will be subject to those negotiations, just as with the EU.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Dominic Raab and Yvette Cooper

Committee: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I think the hon. Lady is right. The Minister will be able to clarify this later, but I think it is a key point that the vote on the primary legislation— on the implementation of the Bill—will not happen until after the treaty has been ratified. I think that there is still some confusion about whether the vote on a motion, or a resolution, will happen before or after the ratification of the treaty, but the main point I want to make about the weakness of trying to do this simply through a resolution is that it is the primary legislation that counts, and it is clear from what the Minister has said, and what has been said in the written ministerial statement, that the primary legislation vote, the statutory vote, will not happen until after the ratification and the whole legal process have been completed.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Dominic Raab)]

The written ministerial statement makes it very clear that the meaningful vote will come after the negotiations have been concluded, but before ratification. That is precisely why it was published today.

[Yvette Cooper]

I think that there is a big difference between us on the word “meaningful”. I shall be happy to give way to the Minister again, but I think that he should clarify the position, and confirm that the only vote that we will have before the ratification of the treaty is a vote on a motion.

We are talking about a “take it or leave it” deal, and about a “take it or leave it” vote on the completed deal. That is the only thing that is there, even in the written ministerial statement; and there is no guarantee in the legislation, by the way. The Minister is not proposing to put that on the face of the Bill. Even if we take the written ministerial statement in good faith, and even if we rip up our commitment to putting things on the face of the Bill, all that the Minister has given us is the possibility of a vote on a motion, not a vote on primary legislation before the ratification of the treaty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Yvette Cooper]

Will the Minister give way?

[Dominic Raab]

No, I am going to make some progress.

Nor is there any getting around the long tail of technical, regulatory secondary legislation that we will need to get through if we want to provide the legal certainty that will make for a smooth Brexit.

[Dominic Raab]

I am going to make a little progress.

[Yvette Cooper]

Will the Minister give way? I did give way to him.

[Dominic Raab]

I will give way to the right hon. Lady later, and I am coming on to talk about her amendment.

I just want to address the point made by the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich about illustrations of what this power will be used for, because I hope that that will serve to assuage some of the concerns. The power could also be used to legislate, for example, for the status of goods that have been placed on the UK market at the time of our withdrawal, subject, of course, to what we agree with the EU on that. That could include a whole range of very technical, detailed measures to ensure that EU products continue to be made available in the UK, with no additional requirements on relabelling; to define what is meant by “placed on the market” for those products that benefit from the measures agreed; or to establish measures to facilitate continued oversight of those products. Again, these examples are illustrative, not exhaustive. However, I hope that I have at least addressed the kinds of cases that we are talking about, and also given an idea of the scale and volume of the technical separation issues that will need to be legislated for in time for exit day. Clause 9 will make an important contribution to a smooth Brexit in precisely those areas.

[Yvette Cooper]

Timing is the crucial issue. Given that there are many examples of an accelerated process being used to get primary legislation through this place on many different matters, including in a single day when that has been necessary, why would it not be possible, if time was starting to run out, to have a very simple one or two-clause Bill that would do the bits of things on which the Minister needs to get agreement and to put the secondary powers in place, and therefore at least have a vote on primary legislation? Why is it not possible to do that very quickly to deal with the concerns that have been expressed?

[Dominic Raab]

It is just not practicable. I will come on to address the timeframe for how we are going to approach the agreement, the meaningful vote on a resolution, and then the withdrawal agreement Bill.