Tackling Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Lord Bishop of Manchester

Tuesday 22nd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to have this short session this evening. I also gave evidence at IICSA in person: I was an expert witness on Anglican religious communities, because that was one of the guises in which Bishop Peter Ball had justified his abuse.

I want to pick up on mandatory reporting, which has been referred to already. For some in the Church of England, and for many in the Roman Catholic Church and some other churches as well, the tradition of the seal of the confessional has been honoured for many centuries and established in canon law in this land. There is an arguable case that the seal allows somebody—and it is more likely to be a victim or witness who comes to the confessional—to make a kind of protected disclosure, which then often would lead to them being helped to make a more public disclosure and allow a perpetrator to be taken to justice. I hope there will be careful discussions with religious bodies as to exactly where the seal of the confessional will fit in with this; I know my Catholic colleagues will particularly be concerned around that. We want what will produce the best safeguarding, but it is not simply that mandatory reporting or getting rid of the seal of the confessional will get better reporting at the end of the day.

On redress, I am vice chair of the Church of England redress board. We are setting up our own scheme because we just could not be bothered to wait for the IICSA recommendation on redress to come into force. But we also think it is important that we are the ones who will be paying out the money where we did wrong to somebody—whether it was in the original abuse, in colluding with a cover-up or in failing to take a disclosure seriously. I would appreciate the Minister’s comments on whether, if we do have a national redress scheme, there will be some effort to recoup the costs from the bodies that were responsible for the abuse, or covering up the abuse, in the first instance, rather than this simply being something that the taxpayer ends up picking up.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate for his approach to the issue. I hope I can reassure him that I have already had representations from churches, and I have received at the Home Office a delegation from a cross-religious group to discuss the very issue that he has mentioned about the relationship between the priest or vicar and the individual. I want to explore that and I have given a commitment to discuss that further with those from the churches who made contact with me, and we have had submissions on that. I cannot give him definitive, final positions today, but I hope that we can debate this during the course of the passage of the Bill in this House.

I recognise that the issue of a redress scheme is extremely important. I recognise that victims and survivors will probably be very disappointed that the Government are not yet able to commit to a redress scheme. For those who know the internal workings of government, there is a spending review in the current climate and we have to work through that spending review. I cannot give a commitment today on that issue, but I hope that the right reverend Prelate knows that it is certainly a recommendation to government, and we will examine and respond in due course.

Extremism Review

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Lord Bishop of Manchester

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and I agree with all three points that he has mentioned. The key point is that Governments consider a range of advice. I give a commitment from this Dispatch Box, as my right honourable friend the Home Secretary would from the House of Commons, that when any change or development of policy is made it will be reported to this House and to the House of Commons. That is the right and proper thing to do. As for speculation on leaked documents and advice given to Ministers: Ministers decide. They receive advice, commission potential papers and deliberate on them. The two reviews we have established are designed to create debate and bring forward suggestions that Ministers will ultimately decide on. I thank the noble Lord for his comments, with which I agree, and welcome his support.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of the national police ethics committee. In your Lordships’ House next week, we will begin Committee on the very important Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill. Would the Minister agree that this is a time when we have to be absolutely clear what we mean by terrorism, so that we in this House can give that Bill the clear, in-depth scrutiny it requires?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I agree, and I look forward to spending potentially several days debating that Bill with noble Lords. It is important that we have a definition of terrorism. It is currently set down in legislation. The Government have asked again for a review of that as part of the review the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, referred to, but there are no outcomes to it yet. Until it brings any outcomes, that is the definition of terrorism in place for this legislation.

Respect Orders and Anti-social Behaviour

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Lord Bishop of Manchester

Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

This is extremely important. It goes slightly wider than my brief in the Home Office. We end up with the criminal justice end of the business. But my noble friend makes an extremely important point. It is important that we give support to communities through other government departments to address open spaces, play areas, youth clubs and other distractions. One of the other activities that the Government are undertaking is trying to invest in those areas over the next 12 months. But, specifically, my end of the business is when that does not work.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, I declare my interest as the co-chair of the national ethics committee of the National Police Chiefs’ Council. However, it is more in my role as Bishop of Manchester that I am speaking now. I get to go out from time to time at night with Street Angels or Street Pastors groups, as they are sometimes called. Many of these originated in the churches, but they are not exclusively church-based organisations. They provide gentle support on the streets, often late at night in city and town centres, helping to keep the peace. They help to deal with people who have become distressed—perhaps somebody who has had too much to drink and is either not safe themselves or cannot keep those around them safe.

The police I have worked with over the years really appreciate the work these volunteer organisations do. They are definitely not vigilantes; they are simply there to be caring, kind and supportive. But they defuse situations and help release police time to deal with situations that only police officers can deal with. So could the Minister indicate what role His Majesty’s Government see for these sorts of voluntary civil society organisations in supporting respect and keeping our streets safe?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate for his question. I wholeheartedly endorse and thank those involved in that community work and community spirit, encouraging people who may be straying into difficult areas for a range of reasons, helping them to modify their behaviour and potentially pointing them in the long-term direction of further help. It is extremely important, and the Government are trying not to replace voluntary activities but to support them. However, they will retain the ability, if these orders are passed by both Houses, to put a new sanction in place that tackles persistent anti-social behaviour of a low-level kind, which is very disruptive to individuals in the evening, but sometimes in the daytime.