Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Act 2025

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Deech

Tuesday 28th April 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Again, we had full and good exchanges on this when the Bill came before this House and the House of Commons. I explained then, as I will explain now, that the impact assessment assesses that small organisations will face around a £330 charge over a 10-year period to meet the obligations of Martyn’s law and the protection of premises Act. I do not think that a £33 a year cost for potential training or advice is significant when potentially it will help save lives, which is the whole purpose of Martyn’s law.

We had that debate during the passage of the Bill. Both Houses of Parliament agreed it was reasonable. I suggest that the noble Lord accepts that reasonableness and helps us to ensure that the guidance is well understood and implemented across the board.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, judging by the definitions in the Act, the proposed new Holocaust memorial and learning centre in Victoria Tower Gardens will come under it. I am not expecting the Minister to give me a detailed reply, because I am sure this is confidential. However, does he have confidence that it can be protected from, for example, firebombing, in the light of the fragility of Victoria Tower, the proximity to the river, the openness of the remainder of the gardens and the buildings along Millbank?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Well, I have to say to the noble Baroness that I cannot give any assurances on potentially what will happen against any site. What I can say is that those who have a responsibility for the site under this Act have a duty to ensure that they take steps to prevent actions as far as possible. That involves training for potential members of staff and looking at the physical environment and at what steps can be taken to prevent those attacks. The Martyn’s law Bill was never about stopping attacks: it was about how we manage an event if an attack takes place. The Home Office and the security services would want to make sure that, if any such attacks were planned, we would know in advance and would stop the perpetrators that way. But Martyn’s law is about what we do in the event of an attack taking place in real time, at that moment.

Antisemitic Attacks

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Deech

Monday 27th April 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I hear from a sedentary position the comment, “They are”. I recognise that individuals are, but hope that one of the things we could do is encourage that action not occurring. It is important, as part of this solidarity, that we allow people from various faiths—the Jewish faith and others—to celebrate their activities, actions and performances as part of our multicultural, socially cohesive society. I stand with the noble Lord and will reflect with colleagues and Ministers on how we can give practical action to that objective.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, I will pick up on the notion that Islamic extremism lies behind this. This means—I hope the Minister agrees—that the Charity Commission should be investigating charities that support extremism and funnel money towards it. But behind that Islamic extremism lies the religion: religious teaching has brought us to this point. Let us not forget that all the Jews in the Middle East were thrown out of countries such as Yemen and Syria before Israel was established. Just as many Jews were expelled from the Middle East as Arab Palestinians left Palestine, on religious grounds. Jews were always second-class citizens in those countries, because that is what the religion prescribes.

That means that the Government must not stop inspecting and registering religious schools. I believe that there has been a movement to exempt them, but that would be absolutely wrong. If there are schools where children spend the whole day studying religion, they must be inspected. We must make sure that children get secular education and that they are not taught to hate. The noble Lord, Lord Mann, and Penny Mordaunt pointed that out in their report on antisemitism, and they asked the Church of England to make sure that children were not taught hostility.

I also hope that the Minister will condemn the possible motion of the Green Party, which was not put in the end, that Zionism is racism and that Israel should not exist. To have in this country a party that takes that attitude, presumably to attract the worst in society, is simply unacceptable. I look to this Government to condemn it.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

On the noble Baroness’s first point, the Charity Commission is looking at a number of charities to ensure that they meet charitable objectives and are not fostering unacceptable activity.

The noble Baroness also mentioned inspecting schools. I will take that point away because, although I have responsibility for some issues, I do not have direct responsibility for that. I will report it to my colleague, the Minister responsible in the Department for Education.

On the noble Baroness’s last point, I will allow the Green Party to speak for itself. The Labour Party fought a long battle to try to rid itself of some aspects of antisemitism within its membership, and it succeeded in doing that. Some of those people are now turning up in other political parties. This is not acceptable. It should not be there and I hope that those responsible for political discourse will make sure that they take action within their party, as we did within ours.

West Midlands Police: Maccabi Tel Aviv Match

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Deech

Thursday 11th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend. Let me say two things. The police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands is accountable to the people of the West Midlands for whatever they say. The chief constable is accountable to the police and crime commissioner and it is for them—I say this genuinely—to determine locally whether they wish to take any further action in the light of the interesting points that my noble friend made.

What we have done, as the Home Office and Home Secretary, is to ask, on 27 November, for an urgent report on the intelligence received and the issues that my noble friend mentioned. We have asked for that to be done via His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary by 31 December, so that we can get to the bottom of what was said and what information led to it. It is better that I wait for the outcome of the report that we commissioned before I comment in detail on any of the potential allegations that have been made. The Home Affairs Select Committee is looking at this issue separately and will produce its own report in due course.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, we now know that the match decision was based on fake evidence, but it is not just a local matter. I have made a list of the number of times that this Prime Minister has said, “We will not tolerate antisemitism in our society and on our streets”. But he does and they do: more than any other Government I remember in recent years. It is time for the Government to indicate to the police that they should not prioritise the supposed interests of violent, unreasonable, anti-Israel politicians and mobs over the peaceful majority, whether around football or at protests.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Let me, in the nicest possible way, refute exactly what the noble Baroness said. This Prime Minister is committed to rooting out and tackling antisemitism and to making sure that we do not have racism in our society. He is doing so in a way that also allows for people who take a view on Israel and the performance of the Israeli state to protest peacefully. If the noble Baroness looks at the Crime and Policing Bill that we are taking through now, she will see that we are putting in a range of measures to stop protests that impact on any community in a particular way.

The noble Baroness also raised some wider issues, which I accept, which is why we have asked His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary to look at them, as well as the specific allegations to which my noble friend referred, and at whether we can improve the performance of safety group assessments in the areas that she mentioned.

Police Accountability

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Deech

Monday 28th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

My response to the noble Lord will not be critical of the judge. I simply say that, having seen the implications of that decision, my right honourable friend and I have taken the view that anonymity is the best way to protect the safety of anybody charged with these offences who is a police officer. I hope that Members of this House who have a judicial background will not take that as a criticism. It is a way in which we can review what has happened in this case, and the consequences of what happened after naming the individual, and try to put in a framework that in due course will potentially have legal backing from this House and the House of Commons.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, the attention of the House today is rightly turned on relationships between the police and the black community, but there is another sector of the community that feels completely abandoned by the police. Week after week there are marches through the centre of London: pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, with anti-Semitic slogans and violence. On Sunday the police did nothing while a violent mob gathered outside the leading Jewish community centre in London, to the great distress of those attending a meeting there. When someone pushes back against that, they get arrested rather than the anti-Israel demonstrators in a way that I do not think would happen if there was a right-wing demonstration. I am saying not that there is two-tier policing but that the police are turning a blind eye to a very dangerous and difficult situation. For example, the blockade of Tower Bridge only nine days ago was hardly reported. Will the Minister remind the police that a great deal of anti-Semitism and violence is demonstrating itself on the streets of London? It must be stopped if trust is to be rebuilt.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising that issue. I do not believe there is two-tier policing. I believe the police act impartially against anybody who is committing an offence, and the police will act in that way against anybody who is perceived to be committing an offence. If the noble Baroness has concerns over that, maybe she should raise them with the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, who at least can be aware of her concerns. Ultimately, I believe that police officers will act against criminality and that no judgmental decision is made by the police one way or the other. If criminality occurs, the police should act and arrest; if that arrest is taken forward, the CPS should prosecute, and the court under a jury system should determine.